The Steel Guitar Forum

Foundationally I feel like I can get way better results
without finger picks...
I absolutely hate them.

Thoughts?

I'm bare finger picker as well. Started on bass & guitar with just fingers and never really meshed with picks.

I don't play with finger picks either. I double on guitar too. I've heard some really good steel playing without finger picks. Mike Bourque plays with a flat pick and fingers when he's doubling on guitar. Danny Muhammad plays with a thumb pick and no finger picks when he's doubling on guitar. That being said, both of them "can" play with finger picks and often do if they aren't doubling on guitar.

I was told when I started I couldn't play without finger picks but I work almost every weekend. Are there things I can't do? Yes. I just don't do those things.

If you can get the tone you want and it works for you, go with it. You will find things you can't do, or can't do as easy in some cases. You may also find it works for you and what you want to play/do.

Everyone is different. There is no right or wrong way, if the sound you want comes out... that's all that matters imo.

Pretty much everybody hates finger picks at first. They don't feel natural at all. But nothing else about pedal steel feels natural either.

There are tons and tons of threads on this. Read up.

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=370007

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=352217

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=334968

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=326147

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=351562

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=327798

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=318782

https://steelguitarforum.com/Forum15/HTML/000505.html

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=317979

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=295985

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=298186

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=302940

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=294823

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=354505

... and that's mostly just going back a few years (with the exception of the Bobbe Seymour thread). There are lots more if you look.

Bottom line - do what you want. But I think there's a reason that 99+% of pedal steel players use metal finger picks. For me, some of it is the tone I'm looking for, and some of it is the high string tension. My fingernails are not super strong and the typical 3-4+ gig would have my right hand finger calluses bleeding without them. And the tight strings just shred my fingernails well inside one hour. For slide guitar, I generally play thumb pick and fingers (calluses) for tonal reasons, but I've had to cut the gauges down. I used to use more like 13-56 strings, but I really can't function without finger picks with those.

One last word - don't not play with finger picks just because you don't want to put in the time to make it happen. I think it's entirely legitimate to play without finger picks. But IMO, if you don't learn to also use finger picks, I think you're missing a big piece of what pedal steel guitar is about. Again, just my opinion, YMMV.

Bobbe Seymour was no fingerpicks guy. Played better than most of us ever will and had a pretty decent run as a player before opening Steel Guitars of Nashville. God I miss his stories...lol

I use fingerpicks but like playing C6 in western swing style without them. I use thumbpick and bare fingers on fingerstyle guitar so it's a no brainer. I can't imagine playing banjo without them. E9 sounds more true to form with picks.

This is from the thread I referenced above about Bobbe Seymour:

Bobbe Seymour wrote:Bob G. and Mark, I've used picks for many years, all my recording has been with picks,however in owning this steel guitar store and having to play a few notes scatterd out over the day,I never had time to adjust the picks to the right feeling position before it was time to take them off again. So -----over the years it became more and more comfortable to play without them.
Yes there is a tone diffrence,but I feel I have more control over the tone without picks than with them.The notes all sound pretty much the same with picks.Without picks
I can actually "get a better hold" of the note and can control tone better. Finger nails pretty well have to be in good condition though.
As I walked up to Jim Coen's Fessenden guitar at the convention,it was only natural to ask for a bar and thumb pick only, as most players don't want you to bend their finger picks.Tone again? And speed? Both can be better without picks,after practice! Sustain is the same as sustain is a function of the guitar, not the picks.
Bobbe

Bobbe keeps on coming up as "the guy" who played without finger picks, and as he stated, his recordinig before opening the store was done with picks. He could play both with and without picks. I have sat down with him and watched him do both. His fingernails were very strong and well-kept. Listening to him play, I could discern a difference in the tone between with and without, but both sounded good.

From my slide guitar playing, I agree with him that one can, with a lot of practice, get a bit better hold of the string without picks. But I don't think it sounds the same, and even less the same when using the flesh/calluses of the fingers. Actually, that's what I'm going for with slide guitar, but I would not be happy with that for pedal steel most of the time. And I'd have to lighten up the string gauges to avoid shredding my fingertips on a long gig.

I find playing without finger picks makes the the whole experience enjoyable.

I try picks every ten years or so, and I always give up after a couple of weeks. I just HATE them.

To me, using fingerpicks feels like driving a car with a joystick from the back seat – no control, no feedback.

Admittedly, the tone suffers a bit, but it also becomes much easier to block using your fingertips without creating unwanted metallic noises. Since I only play for my own enjoyment, it's a good compromise for me. YMMV.

FWIW Sid Hudson (RIP) played with a flatpick. He was outstanding and lightning fast when he wanted to be.

If you're playing for your own amusement, do as you please. But the best way to get the sound that audiences and other musicians recognise, and which furthers the cause of the pedal steel, is to use the picks. As Dave Mudgett says, don't complain that they feel unnatural. You're already bending notes with your lower limbs (how is that normal?) and grappling with parallax (or not being able to see the fret at all). There's nothing natural about holding the bar, so while you're learning that, get pickin'!

Using a thumb pick isn't the question here.

The few times I saw Sid play, he was using a flat pick...and two finger picks! But have anyone knowledgeable pick the top 10 pedal steel players of all time, or the top 20, or even the top 30, and you'll find they all used finger picks.

I figure there must be a reason.

I'll add in as a relative novice. As a longtime guitar player, especially nylon classical, when I first got a PSG, fingernails sure did feel good. And picks were absolutely horrible and awkward. Almost 4 years later they still aren't perfect but I'm so used to them. Like a banjo or Dobro, I think it's needed to make the sound & strength especially with a band.

Like trying to write with your other hand, eventually you'll be able to do it well.

I went 2 years no picks (on 1st and 2nd fingers)Finally
made my self wear them every time i sat down for 2 weeks; became natural feeling after that.
I pick blocked a little better without them,but play faster and have better tone with them...
I am glad i broke down and went to wearing them.

Didn’t everybody hate finger picks at first? I know I hated the first 3 pairs I tried. Bending, shaping, nothing worked. Struck gold with the fourth pair, right out of the box.

I agree with starting out wearing them a little at a time, gradually increasing the length of time during practice.

Finger picks are like having a compressor/limiter on your fingertips. They even out your tone and attack on pedal steel. And eventually I think they make you more accurate and expressive. It’s not like guitar and bare fingers - not at all.

I like playing with just a thumb pick once in awhile, at home and not working seriously on anything. Tried no fingerpickspicks on a gig once. Didn't work tonewise--no "bite" to what I was playing, and it chewed up my fingernails.

I say do whatever works for you, but do realize that picks can take a long time to get used to. I never hated them like some people do, but it still took awhile to get comfortable. One thing that helped me "feel" the string more was switching to thinner brass picks instead of stainless steel.

If you're happy and getting the sound you want/need, that's all that matters. Play with your toes if you want! Fingerpicks will always be there if you decide to try again.

There you have it.
If Paul Franklin can play using fingerpicks, anyone can!
Or....
If Russ Paul can play without using fingerpicks, anyone can!

Such is life and learning on The Forum.

Ian Rae wrote:But the best way to get the sound that audiences and other musicians recognise, and which furthers the cause of the pedal steel, is to use the picks.

I completely agree with the first part of your statement...but not the second

I believe that to further the cause of pedal steel, it needs to be taken to new genres of music not normally associated with the instrument and creating non traditional sounds/techniques is a wonderful way to do that. Not to say that playing with picks means players can't move out of the normal sound and forms associated with the instrument, Paul Franklin is an excellent example, but playing without picks can also be an important part of that expansion.

When I play my prog rock songs with pedal steel for people, I love it when they can't identify that I'm playing pedal steel and ask, "what in the world is that instrument?"

Don't further the cause of pedal steel! People might figure out that I'm a hack!

There is advantages to both.
In the late 80's, Buddy played with just a thumb pick and no fingerpicks, so I tried it. This what I found.
The positive: After getting some slight callousing on the fingertips there are some very nice tonal options depending on what part of the finger tip/flesh is used.
The negative: I couldn't play with the attack and speed I got with fingerpicks.
I have some recordings I made with Buddy not using fingerpicks and the tone is fantastic.
At that time, Buddy was using the IVL Pitchrider MIDI interface with a Roland synth module and a beautiful sound he used was mixing the steel slightly above the synth, giving it an immediate attack with the steel and a nice unique synth sound with the steel sound just underneath the steel.
Having the steel sound "leading the way" also covered up the very slight delay from the IVL
Buddy's solo organ playing is just like a great organist.
Buddy had a volume pedal that Goodrich made for him.
Like the old Fender pedals, it also went side-to-side for the blend of synth and steel.
There was the usual stereo steel outs along with a MIDI jack for a cable that went from the volume pedal to right into the side of a 4 space rack case with the synth stuff..
Pee Wee Charles brought the IVL to Buddy's and Mike Cass and myself got to be flies on the wall.
I didn't stay with it because I often sounded like a bad keyboard player and the company went out of business.

Paul Franklin plays with and without picks. He chooses the right sound and feel for the song.

Playing without fingerpicks: your fingernails have to be maintained to a good length, and it's nice if you have callouses. I'm not good at either of these things -- I've played the crap out of my bare thumb on regular guitars and callouses don't build and it's really painful. So I use finger and thumbpicks -- and they sound great, too. But to each his own.