The Steel Guitar Forum

Someone in 2006 said a variation of... "It would be interesting to see a useful method of illustrating pockets on an E9th neck that included raises and lowers (or even harmonized scales."

Has anyone done that yet?

Well, I found The Pocket Corner down toward the end of this list... here...

http://www.buddyemmons.com/tab_from_buddy.htm

Newbies might be interested in this.

For C6 though, great stuff anyway

Yes, that's the drawback. Need one for the E9. I'm really surprised if no one has done something for the E9.

I'm finding some very beautiful groupings by mistake. I do not forget them.

Yes this is what most are; or wanting to achieve, pocket wise>
http://www.buddyemmons.com/Pockets.htm
Buddy has great ideas and explanations; then you continue to search and find those things that work for you and make sense.
For me; take G no pedals 3rd fret. Well I can play part of a G chord in EVERY FRET; and I discover and know those notes by NUMBERS; as every note in major scale is indeed> 1;2;3;4;5;6;7;8 and knowing those number values of every note on your E9 10 string whether you have no pedals or knees or levers or any combination in those familiar fret pockets but also any fret around it...is VERY VALUABLE.
Have fun.
Ricky
P.S.
Key of G; no ped, fret 3:
1 > 9th (or 2)
2 > M7
3 > 3rd
4 > 1
5 > 5th
6 > 3rd
7 > 9th (or 2)
8 > 1
9 > b7
10> 5th

Ok now; tell me number value every string, in next Major pocket 6th fret, Emmons pedal 1 and LKL raising 4&8???

Ok now tell me number value every string in 8th fret just lowering 4&8??

Ok now tell me number value every string peds down 10th fret??

Ricky

Gosh, Ricky, I'm terrible with numbers. ha!

So just give me the rest of my life to figure that out.

I do have a burning desire to understand it all, not just play it, and wish I did because I'm pretty good at breaking things down to make them more simple to understand. I'd really like the opportunity to do that with music notation. With this pandemic, I just may have the time to learn.

I just learned "Sweet Hour of Prayer" and embellished it with some great extra harmony. Ah, what a pretty song.

Say... this is fun!

I do exactly as Ricky described. Learned the "G" scale at the 3rd fret, 6th fret A pedal F lever, 8th fret E and X levers, 10th fret A B pedals and D lever. Those are my main "pockets" on E9th. There are 3 others.

I know the note numbers (very helpful), and since I've been learning keyboard I'm starting to know the the note names as well. Numbers are easier. Once you know one key on steel, you know them all. That's the advantage of the number system.

And yes like b0b; it really is easier with numbers than note names.
It is very relative; and since we have such a variation of notes right there on one fret; it puts it into faster perspective in the number system. I play a LOT on movie soundtracks and I'm sitting there in a studio with 20 other musical instruments(strings; horns; guitars; piano...etc.) and we all have a sheet of music in front of us to play. HOLY MOLY>..ha....they all know the notes instantly on their instruments as that is HOW THEY LEARNED....well WE DON'T learn our instrument that way. But the composer is such a great friend; he writes all my notes I will play in numbers...ah...ha....and of course I can follow along regular chord progressions...but able to play my note parts when it's my part in Charts....YAY...all the string members look at me and smile and say: "how do you do that ricky"?...I say: "it's just like you; you know instantly where your notes are and I know instantly where my numbers are..and it's all counting to 8 no matter what....so I can count"...and they laugh.,..ha.
It didn't happen over night....you do need to memorize your note/numbers; and like b0b said; like I posted in G.... well the notes are the same numbers for an A chord at the 5th fret no pedals...and the main pockets that go with that "root chord name".
Then you start to build chords by numbers. Like with the pedal down chord and you want to do a Augmented chord; so the Augmented note is a sharp 5 and so where is your 5th tone in pedal down chord?? yes 4th string; now can you raise that string a half tone/sharp?? yes on knee lever; now you have a Augmented chord. What is a "Minor chord" well a minor is flat3rd....> What is a Major7 chord...well a major 7 note is half tone flat from root; so in no pedal chord; where is your root(1) and can you flat that a half tone..??yes with a knee...now you have on the 3rd fret a form of a GMaj7 chord..ah..ha...and on from there.....see how it all is relative to "NUMBER NOTATION"???
Ricky

Being a complete novice (started learning PSG 3 months ago) I am a little hesitant contributing to this thread. But... the 1st tool I found to help me learn my fretboard is an app called SteelSidekick. https://steelsidekick.com/

You can create any guitar 6,8,10 or 12 string, in any tuning and add whatever pedals or levers you want or use the standard configurations. After the guitar is defined (I made a custom template for 11 string E9) the app will show all the notes on the neck (open or raised/lowered) it will display the scale at the lower right side of the screen and the 3 note chord (Root,3rd & 5th) on the left. the notes are color coded and easily identifiable on the fret board.

Hope this helps someone...

The old 3 string, 2 finger, 1 pedal pattern speed exercise is a good example of how a chord (G in the exercise) "moves" up and down the fret board. Also Jeff Newman had a couple of pages on speed picking that used 1 pedal and 4 (maybe 5) strings to demonstrate about the same thing,,,these patterns could be considered "pockets) as used in Buddy's examples of C6 pockets,,,,

Edward Dixon wrote:Being a complete novice (started learning PSG 3 months ago) I am a little hesitant contributing to this thread. But... the 1st tool I found to help me learn my fretboard is an app called SteelSidekick. https://steelsidekick.com/

+1
Another vote for Steel Sidekick. It has been an invaluable tool for me over my first four years of playing. I use it both for practice and for experimenting with copedent options. I believe it is a Mac-only app. For Windows, there is Karlis Abonis’ Guitar Map, which is also an excellent app for learning the fretboard - “pockets”, chords, scales, etc.

Thanks for the heads-up on that new App. Now if only....

It's like looking at the Greek alphabet and they say, "Now you know all the words!"

I'd appreciate just one example of how to use this app for "practical application." If that makes any sense....

Thanks to all that have responded here!

The app is not very intuitive but here is a basic start...

Select a guitar using the settings icon..




Set Scale and chord {left side of menu bar} In the photo I use a G scale and chord. The "i" icon to the left of the settings will hide/display the scales and chord at the bottom. The notes are color coded and easy to find on the fret diagram. I this case (using the root,3rd and 5th) all the notes are purple. If the chord is changed to minor the A# (or Bb) will be blue.





To use pedal or lever .. tap it and a dot will appear on the pedal or lever tapped and the notes will shift. In this example A+B are selected and we see the purple notes line up more at the 10th fret rather than the 3rd





Hope that helped ....

Thanks for that!

So with your G scale/chord manipulation, if I need to know where to find the strings and frets that make a G chord, you can see them right there, right? Or am I wrong?

---

That is correct. Also notice that only the notes of the scale selected are displayed on the fretboard diagram. This where you find the pockets (if I understand correctly, works for me)

I think it's beginning to click. I realy like being able to see the various notes that make up the chords. What a nice App.

Now tell me... If you're in the Key of C and want to know which strings at which fret will give you an augmented C, what are those strings/frets that will produce the C augmented chord?

J Hill:
Select “Chord” in the upper left next to “Scale”. Choose C for the Root, and Augmented for the name.

Keep in mind that making those choices will only show you where the notes of a Caug triad are on the fret board. The app doesn’t tell you what pedals and levers to engage to form the chord across one fret. You kinda have to figure that out on your own.

Also, if your copedent is different than the “standard” that the app opens by default, you have to go into Settings to make changes to the graphic that reflect your copedent.

If you click the Settings wheel in the upper right, there is a selection called “Show Tutorial”. It is very brief and helpful.

Thanks for that Fred, I'll go do that now. I didn't even think about Settings letting me change the copedent or doing anything else useful.

And Edward, this is the beginning Theory I really needed but couldn't find on my own so thanks a million for leading me to the right place. (See how happy I am!)

Now I have NO excuses.

Uh-oh.... I'd better get busy.

This forum is priceless. And so are the people here.

The actual "pockets" that I tend to use when soloing in A are:

Fret 5, moving down to 3, and moving up to 7.

Fret 12, moving down to 10, and moving up to 13

Of course, there's a lot of pedal and lever action available at those frets. That's just where my bar is. So basically, I'm at home at the I or V fret.

My song goes from the 3rd fret to the 6th, then 8th, 10th, 13th and back down again (Sweet Hour of Prayer). I'm using all the strings but the 1st I think, and using the A and B pedals.

If I'm following the conversation correctly, this is about arpeggiating the chord and the pockets are convenient groupings that, in this case, can be found at frets 3, 6, 8, 10 & etc. Yes, no?

Ok now; tell me number value every string, in next Major pocket 6th fret, Emmons pedal 1 and LKL raising 4&8???

Ok now tell me number value every string in 8th fret just lowering 4&8??

Ok now tell me number value every string peds down 10th fret??

It should be mentioned that the Steel Sidekick app has an option that shows interval numbers of a given key on the fretboard layout instead of note names.

Regarding definition of “pockets”. It’s a Buddy Emmons term, so might as well try to figure out what he meant. It is kinda explained on his website linked in Ricky Davis’ post. Studying that page is a worthy effort.

For me, the big revelation was grasping the fact that diatonic notes and chord tones are everywhere, pedals down up and sideways... In fact, in most 2 or 3 fret areas, there are more diatonic notes than out-of-key clinkers, no matter what your changer is trying to do to you. And usually, sliding up or down one fret on any string gets you back on course and maybe even into port safely.

I think of a pocket as a place where a meaningful tune can be played using only a small portion of the fretboard... like playing the various chord positions up and down the strings but not going many frets to the right and left. I think of the 'licks' as being often played in pockets.