E Lower knee lever question

[Mike DiAlesandro]

Does anyone raise their 9th string to a D# in unison with their E lowers?

I don't on a ten string E9th, but on a 12 string extended E9th, my string grips are less accurate, in particular in the lower register. This is a visual issue, as the same top 10 strings are identical in both tunings. It seems more problematic when lowering your E's and playing in B6th mode.

I tried this out and it seems like an ok way to get used to having the 2 extra strings on the low end, and I realize it is a nice change that otherwise isn't available in the lower range, D -D# or when releasing the knee and getting the D# - D change.

Just curious what thoughts or ideas others may have.

Thanks

[Ian Rae]

It seems more problematic when lowering your E's and playing in B6th mode.

If you're going to play in B6 a lot it's best to go universal and ditch the D string. Of course, there are many reasons why you might not want to do that!

[Fred Treece]

Interesting idea. How about not even having the E-lower on string 8 then? In B6 mode, the accidental clinker between D# and E is nothing compared to D and D#. Plus, keeping the E on string 8 while lowering 4 presents an easy maj7 chord grip on 8-6-5-4.

No matter what you do, I’m sure you will lose as much as you gain by making the change.

[James Polk]

My Sho-Bud came this way standard because it only has 2 knees between the both necks. Right knee operates both necks and left knee does E's and D. This is my first steel so I haven't known anything else. I guess this is an older standard change from the time when it wasn't so easy to just add knees and pedals.

[Henry Brooks]

I would put the D to D# on another lever. There are times when you want to lower the 9th string D to C# and lower strings 4 and 8 to D#. Also, there are times to only raise the D to D#. For example instead of playing just strings 6, 8D, 10 you play a sixth chord with the root in the bass 6, 7, 9 (D#), and 10. Moving down three frets with the same fingering adding the B pedal and dropping the 9th string to D for another Sixth chord with the sixth in the bass 6B,7,9,10.
Henry

[K Maul]

A have a Justice S-10 Jr with only 2+2 in E9. It’s a very simple setup I’m experimenting with. I put that change on my LKR, dropping 8E-Eb, raising 9D-Eb and raising 4 E-F. I use string 2 for the Eb like Lloyd Green. The jury is still out on that idea.

[Dave Mudgett]

I have only had one Extended E9 guitar, and I'm pretty much resolved on E9/B6 universal for 12-string. So that guitar is gone. But I think the same reasoning applies on standard 10-string E9, and I sometimes work out of "B6 mode" on a 10-string.

Anyway - I haven't done the string 9 D=>D# raise on my E=>Eb(D#) lever - I don't think I'd find that unison with string 8 very useful. But I have at times put a string 9 D=>C# lower on the E-lever, giving the 2 interval in B, which functions much like string 7 on E9. I also like it for the typical E-lever moves with the B pedal. Of course, with the A pedal down, it gives a unison C# with string 10, which is not a problem but doesn't really add anything for me.

Of course, if you have the typical D-lever (string 2 D#=>D=>C# and string 9 D=>C#) on a different knee from the E-lever, lowering 9 to C# on the E-lever doesn't really add much. But it's useful for me because I have both E and D levers on the right knee. I was missing not being able to lower 9 with E-lever moves when I switched the E-lever from LKR to RKL.

I'll also say that I sometimes like that half-step chromatic between D and D# in B6 mode. Strings 9-7 give D D# F# (#2 3 5 in B) and you can run up the remainder of a 6th (B pedal up) or dom7 (B pedal down) arpeggio with the higher strings up through string 4.

[Mike DiAlesandro]

Thanks for all of the useful input. I have dabbled with this idea for the sake of avoiding the "accidental clinker" as Fred Treece stated...

I am a 10 string player 99% of the time, I happened across an MCI S-12, and have been experimenting with new tuning ideas, as it has a 3 & 3 changer.

I actually put a dedicated cross shaft that locks and shifts it into C6th, pulling 10 strings (including tempering the E's as the 3rd of the C tuning). It has the 5th, 6th, and 7th standard C6th pedals in that mode.

It surprised me how well the changer handled the stress of this lever, I believe the combed changer design really helps stabilize the axle.

Anyway, all done in the spirit of learning and feeding my pedal steel interest. Keeps me out of trouble...

[Dale Rottacker]

I do, but don't use it with the E's lowered, but may should try that too... I raise 9 a half and 7 a whole on RKL where I also raise 1 and 2... Makes a nice Maj7th