The Steel Guitar Forum

Hello friends of steel
What’s the best system line sequence?
Guitar, Black Box, volume pedal, pedal board, amp
Thanks for the “in-put”

Michael for the gang to address your questions, more details are needed:

What steel is it?
What is your volume pedal?
What is your amp? (Some have pedal in/out and effects in/out)

Chris

On my amps without loops(Milkman Half & Half, various Fender, and Music Man):

Mullen RP U-12, Alesis Quadraverb, Alesis 3630 limiter, EB VP jr, front of amp.

On my Session 500 and NV112:

Mullen RP U-12, Alesis 3630, front of amp. VP in the "volume pedal(pre-EQ) patch", Quadraverb in the Post-EQ loop.

I do think the Peavey setup is optimal and if I were more electronics-savvy I'd figure a way to get something similar going with the non-Peaveys, but all-in-line works OK.

The general principle to remember is that the volume pedal (or expression pedal as it should really be called) is part of the instrument. The only thing that should go between it and the guitar might be an impedance-matching device.
After that, do what you like

The Black Box is used at its full potential when it is the first thing in the chain. So the pickup wants to directly 'see' that tube in the Black Box to get the most out of that tube.

After that, it's common to go to the volume pedal (and since the Black Box is an impedance matching device, there's nothing else to gain by, say, having the volume pedal later in the chain, like into the amp's effects loop).

Next comes the pedal board, then the amp.

HOWEVER, you may want to split up that pedal board: dirt boxes will give a consistent level of effect when placed before the volume pedal. The effect is the same, no matter where the volume pedal is in its travel.

And time-based modulation effects (reverb, delay, phase shifter, etc) are good after the volume pedal so that you don't slam the pedal back and cut of a reverb tail (which can sound artificial and odd).

But all of the above is subject to your own desires and tastes. Some people prefer the opposite of what I've laid out and put the overdrive/distortion boxes after the volume pedal so that the effect will ramp up as you step on the pedal. That can sound natural -- but I've always struggled to dial in the boxes this way since what you get out of them is SO dependent on exactly where the pedal is in its travel at any given moment. If the box is too 'touchy' you can go from 'not enough' to 'way too much' overdrive with only a small bit of pedal movement. So on those dirt effects, you should experiment with your particular gear, both before and after the volume pedal, to see what you like best.

Guitar to input on Black Box and then Black Box output to input on volume pedal then volume pedal output to low gain input on my NV112. Only effects I use is the reverb on my amp. Best sound with the Black Box.

Thank you! gentlemen for the reply and all the great advice, and the SGF for the opportunity.
It’s a GFI S10 Expo, Black Box, Hilton expression pedal, effects board(only use the delay) and Nashville 112 in that order. Waiting on some George L cords.

My signal chain is:

Emmons into
Earthdrive into analogman overdrive into
Goodrich L120 vol pedal into
Analogman delay in eventide H9 into
Milkman the amp 100 which has its own reverb.

Michael - wwhy are you using an effects board if you only use the delay? The entire pedalboard sequence is a subject of its own, with true vs buffered bypass pedals needing to be placed in particulal sequences to optimize signal level and lower noise - and while there are general rules about which effects go in what order, it really depends on the individual units themselves, how they are being powered, cable run lengths etc

And gadgets like the Quadraverb mentioned in another post (a version 1 especially) is pretty much an antique today - and nota "vintage effect" in a good way. Difficult to get repair parts, high noise level and artificial sounding digital effects - the reverbs have an especially "metallic" edge to them when compared to the low-noise, warmer room, hall and plate reverbs of most modern units.

Modern multi-effects use downloadable preset patches that are captured from fully serviced and optimized "samples" of the original effects units. Impedance matching - which, in addition to effects type, determines where you want to place it in your signal chain, is also tricky when mixing older and newer "gadgets" in your chain.

That being said, as Tucker noted there are no hard and fast rules. some players like delay and.or reverb last and second to last in the chain when running into the amp's input; others like delay "tails"to continue even when the volume pedal is rolled back.

Some specifics that are consistent, however - impedance matchers like Black Boxes normally work best immediately after the guitar output - ahead of a volume pedal or anything else. This is especially true with many modern pedal steel passive pickups with DC resistance in the "/-20k ohms range, which can suffer tonally without an impedance matcher or preamp designed for passive pickups..

Effects that are dependent on pick attack - octaves, wahs, envelope filters (auto wahs), followed by compressors and limiters (if used) need to be placed before anything else - including the volume pedal, or the effects will not trigger properly. Next are fuzz pedals, followed by other distortion type pedals (and there are distinct differences between fuzz and distortion, boost/overdrive etc).

THEN come the time based pedals - phase, flange, rotary speaker emulators with delays and reverbs (in whichever order is preferred) bring up the rear.

But IF you have an effects loops it's advisable to place the time based effects ONLY - never attack triggered or distortion devices - in the effects loop if you have one in your amp. This places the time effects AFTER the preamp and before the power amp, which has a significant effect on both keeping noise level low and optimizing the overall guitar/amp tone. Less expensive multi-effects that are "kitchen sink" things with fuzz, distortion and everything else in one "bucket" need to be placed in front of the amp. I suggest NOT using those types, especially with steel - it makes it really tough to get a good clean tone to start with, and the effects sounds are invariably "crippled" by their fixed placement.

Hope that helps!