Ear Blind with keys of a song

[Liam Sullins]

So I've been fighting this for about a year now. I'm wanting to get into just listening to a song and figuring out the key and I can't at all. I've had my grandpa walk through it with me and I still can't hear what key songs are in. What can I do to train my ear to pickup on these?

[Andy Henriksen]

Do you mean with an instrument handy to do some trial and error/comparisons, or just solely ID the key by listening with ears only?

I would think VERY few people can do the latter. That's suggestive of perfect pitch, which few humans truly have.

[Liam Sullins]

Do you mean with an instrument handy to do some trial and error/comparisons, or just solely ID the key by listening with ears only?

I would think VERY few people can do the latter. That's suggestive of perfect pitch, which few humans truly have.

Just by listening to the song. I play along with songs, I never play out. My dad can, my grandfather can but for some reason I can't. If I see someone playing chords then I can identify the key that the songs in.

[Robert Pastore]

As Andy mentioned, that's really hard to do. What you can learn to do with practice, is figure out the chord changes by ear. Meaning you can recognize it as a I IV ii V. basically, you can hear each chord in respect to the other chord. then you can play it in whatever key you choose.

[Tom Wilson]

So I've been fighting this for about a year now. I'm wanting to get into just listening to a song and figuring out the key and I can't at all. I've had my grandpa walk through it with me and I still can't hear what key songs are in. What can I do to train my ear to pickup on these?

Are you talking about guitar or pedal steel guitar?
I usually start with the bass guitar notes and build from there. Learn to tell the difference between majors and minors. Then you might want to get some basic theory books to help. There are plenty of posts here related to the chords in major and minor keys. Do a search

[Fred Treece]

I can usually tell when guitars are playing open chords like G, Em, A, D, etc., but sometimes they are drop-tuned or capo’d, so you can’t really tell what key they are in. If there is no guitar on the song, or there are no clearly definable open chords on it, I’m pretty lost. I can sing a little bit and I know my range, so if I can sing along with a song I can take a stab at guessing the key based on the note the song ends on, but that is not a reliable source. I wouldn’t worry about not having the gift your Dad has. It is not nearly as important as other aspects of ear training. Who knows, maybe after years of playing, you will develop your Dad’s ear

[Travis Brown]

My father was a jazz pianist and could tell you the chords to pretty much any song by listening. By "chords" I mean I-IV-V-vi not A-D-E-F#m. I can do it pretty well, thought not like he could.

The key to developing that skill is to practice/learn lots of songs to learn to hear the changes. I have a Burt Bacharach and Neil Diamond songbooks I play through when I'm in the mood, and I play thru jazz standards pretty frequently. The more time you spend hearing different chord progressions and how they work, the better your ear gets and you are able to just know what chord people are going to based on the sound.

If you are trying to hear the actual key, as in "A major", I agree that's a very tough skill to develop and it will likely never be 100% accurate. The people I have know who could do it could either pick out a specific chord like Mr Treece said, i.e. "That sounds like a G chord, and it's the root chord of the song so this much be in G", or I have known a couple who would use their voice as a reference. The one I remember clearly knew her voice was generally around a certain pitch (I think it was D but it's been 30 years), and she would figure out the interval between her voice and the root note of the key and make an educated guess. The one time I saw her do it she was a whole step off, which actually a pretty good guess IMO.

I did know one guy with perfect pitch, and there are few gifts I have ever seen that have made me more jealous.

[Liam Sullins]

As Andy mentioned, that's really hard to do. What you can learn to do with practice, is figure out the chord changes by ear. Meaning you can recognize it as a I IV ii V. basically, you can hear each chord in respect to the other chord. then you can play it in whatever key you choose.

Right that's what I meant to say. I can't hear them at all though.

[Robert Pastore]

I think the best thing to do is listen for patterns you may recognize. Maybe it’s the I to vi (G to Em or C to Am) which is very common.

For me it was the V I resolve. Most refrains will end on the V chord and resolve to the I.
But sometimes the ending takes on that “ church” feeling, that’s when the V goes to the IV before the I.

If you can recognize similarities in different songs, you can then figure it out. It’s one of those things that come with time, but if you start listening for the changes, it will start to click.

[Pat Chong]

Hi Liam,
I don't know how long you have been playing, but what you ask is a learned ability. After awhile, your ears can tell the difference between major, minor and 7th chords. After more "while", you can understand where they are and identify 1, 2m, 3m etc. That you feel you have not reached that point yet does not show inferiority on your part. But, as others have already mentioned, there's just a need for more practice at doing it.
You listed other instruments, so do you play bass also?
If you do, then you might imagine what you would do playing along with the song you are listening to. That's what helps me sometimes. Move ahead.....
.....Pat.

[Fred Treece]

Great point, Pat. Now I remember, when I started learning by ear, it was indeed the bass notes that cue the root of the chord, if not the whole triad. From there, it is just a matter of hearing the difference between minor and major in the chord. The extensions, like 7th and 9th come later, as do the typical chord sequences like 1-4-5 (G-C-D).

Also, the melody note that ends a chorus in a song usually (not always) will be the key note. The chord will usually be the key chord.

By the way, Liam, I really like the phrase “Ear Blind”. Good name for a song.

[Andy Henriksen]

I’m not good at it either. It seems to be a long process of infrequent and small breakthroughs. Recently I had a moment. I was listening to a song, and the use of a minor chord had a totally different feel than the familiar vi chord, and I was pretty sure it as a iii just because of how it sounded. And I was right! The song was Kern River by Merle Haggard, incidentally. So now, I’m a little more confident that I can maybe recognize that chord in a progression...sometimes.

[Liam Sullins]

Hi Liam,
I don't know how long you have been playing, but what you ask is a learned ability. After awhile, your ears can tell the difference between major, minor and 7th chords. After more "while", you can understand where they are and identify 1, 2m, 3m etc. That you feel you have not reached that point yet does not show inferiority on your part. But, as others have already mentioned, there's just a need for more practice at doing it.
You listed other instruments, so do you play bass also?
If you do, then you might imagine what you would do playing along with the song you are listening to. That's what helps me sometimes. Move ahead.....
.....Pat.

Hi Pat. I play guitar and steel. I guess it's a learning process. I appreciate it.

[Jerry Overstreet]

If I understand your question, you want to know the root key of the song, i.e. G or C or D....whatever by listening to the song. For most normal people it's an acquired skill. It just takes focus and time.

I can recall when I was playing a lot, I picked up a tape to learn for a future event at the venue and listened to it on the way home. Some of these I had never heard before.

I made a game of figuring out the keys to the songs. I play a bit of guitar and that helped me to hear the flavor of the open E, A and other key chords. Out of 8 or 10 songs, I had all the keys except one. I couldn't do it today though.

I might have just been lucky as well, but focused ear training helps identify things like this.

[Bob Bestor]

My ear is a weakpoint too. I have been working with this site (https://tonedear.com/)and it is very slowly getting better. To determine the key of a song, I have always slid up the E string until I hit the right note. That works pretty reliably for me and my challenged ear.

[Tucker Jackson]

Liam, can you listen for the bass note and match it a string on your guitar? You might have to play that section of the recording over and over and hunt and peck for that same note on a low string on your instrument.

If you can do that, it's a good place to start working out chords.... it's easier for some to identify the bass note that the chord rests on (and the bass usually plays the note you care about on at least 'Beat 1.') Once you have that, you're halfway home. If the bass note is, say, C, you can then try to play C Major, C minor or C-7 to see how well they mesh with the recording.

HiNT: often, the last note of a tune is also the key of the song (but not always), so it's a good place to start.

[Ian Worley]

As Andy suggests in the first reply, you're talking about perfect pitch, it's not generally something you can learn but rather an ability you're born with (as perhaps your dad and grandpa were). Anyone can find a note by pecking around on their instrument; hearing a random Ab and knowing it's an Ab, not so much.

I love this video from a few years back of Rick Beato drilling his son Dylan (who has perfect pitch) when he was younger. Pretty amazing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3Cb1qwCUvI

This one is really interesting too (part 1 of a series if you're interested in the subject): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgFdics3uKo

[Liam Sullins]

Great point, Pat. Now I remember, when I started learning by ear, it was indeed the bass notes that cue the root of the chord, if not the whole triad. From there, it is just a matter of hearing the difference between minor and major in the chord. The extensions, like 7th and 9th come later, as do the typical chord sequences like 1-4-5 (G-C-D).

Also, the melody note that ends a chorus in a song usually (not always) will be the key note. The chord will usually be the key chord.

By the way, Liam, I really like the phrase “Ear Blind”. Good name for a song.

Haha, would be good.

[Liam Sullins]

Liam, can you listen for the bass note and match it a string on your guitar? You might have to play that section of the recording over and over and hunt and peck for that same note on a low string on your instrument.

If you can do that, it's a good place to start working out chords.... it's easier for some to identify the bass note that the chord rests on (and the bass usually plays the note you care about on at least 'Beat 1.') Once you have that, you're halfway home. If the bass note is, say, C, you can then try to play C Major, C minor or C-7 to see how well they mesh with the recording.

HiNT: often, the last note of a tune is also the key of the song (but not always), so it's a good place to start.

I have done that a few times to figure out a key, it has helped.

[Pat Chong]

Hi again, Liam,
There have been suggestions of listening to the bass line. This is a good idea. Having played bass, myself, is what helps me to ID chords as they play. A little music theory helps too:

Chord. Notes.
Major. 1, 3, 5.
Minor. 1, 3b, 5.
Seventh. 1, 3, 5, 7b.

Of all the chords mentioned, what is in common with them all? The answer is 1 and 5. When you play country/western bass, the notes you hit to the chord are 1 and 5.
You can play bass on your guitar, as the lower strings (3 - 6) are tuned just like a bass, just a couple of octaves higher, to help ID the chords you are listening to. So listen to, and try to copy the bass lines. Know what notes you are playing. This will show you: What key the song is in, the chord structure of the song, and the structure difference between the verse and chorus. Move ahead......
.....Pat

[Jeff Garden]

I've found this book, "How To Play By Ear" by Jack Hatfield to be really helpful. It's not instrument specific but more well organized and not-too-technical chapters on hearing scale and chord relationships, chord types, chord progressions, what chord to expect next etc.

(looks like I need a guide on how not to have your photos get turned 90 degrees!)

[Jeremy Reeves]

My tips -

1- Sing scales against a drone note

2- Chart tunes

3- Play bass

[Ian Worley]

seems like most here are answering a different question than the one the OP actually asked

[Fred Treece]

The OP comment may or may not be about perfect pitch. Relative pitch is very common and the sounds guitars make when certain chords are played are very recognizable to players. A key can certainly be estimated, if not guessed correctly, by listening to common sounds that familiar instruments are making. Also, singers without perfect pitch but who know their own vocal ranges can take pretty accurate stabs at guessing the key of a song after singing along.

It is also not unthinkable that older musicians may have played in those keys thousands of times, and know what they sound like - maybe even played the songs in the same keys they are “guessing”.

A good blind “perfect pitch” test for Liam’s pappy and gramps would be for him to play a single note on a well-tuned piano (not guitar) without them looking at him playing, and then without singing the note back, have them say what note it is. Also, if they are singers, have them sing a perfectly pitched middle C, or any note, and compare it to a perfectly tuned instrument. And yes, it has to be perfect.

Relative pitch, unlike perfect pitch, can be developed with ear training. I think that is the OP’s topic, and some very good relevant comments are appearing in this thread.

[Tony Prior]

While I can identify a few keys by structure, I don't think , for me anyway, that this is anything important.

I've never had an issue firming up the recorded key of any song with an instrument in hand, even the ones that are sort of flat or sort of sharp. And there are many that are in that category !


Its almost A or Almost D.

Well good, thx for nothing !