The Steel Guitar Forum

Ordering a new guitar and weighing my options. S10 is 3x5 and S12 is 8x5. Price wise the S12 is a far better deal. Is 8x5 common on Ext E9 and what copedants would be preferable.

An extended E9 doesn't need more than the regular three pedals.

A 12-string with 8 pedals would be a universal.

Either way, I'd go for 12 strings - why not?

Ian Rae wrote:An extended E9 doesn't need more than the regular three pedals.

A 12-string with 8 pedals would be a universal.

Either way, I'd go for 12 strings - why not?

That depends...I've expanded my extended D9 out to a 6x5

Bottom line, as you say, why not go for the 12 string? With an 8x5 you can do what I did and start out with 3 pedals adding additional ones when you find the need, or you can ditch Extended E9 completely and go for one of the many Uni copedents

If you’re looking at MSA, I’ve been thinking the same thing. There pricing makes me scratch my head and wonder.

You could do a D13 with that set up if you’ve not looked into it yet. I’ve thought of some odd balls with stringing it 2-11 standard E9. It would be nice to see the end of a fret board like the new Sierra’s. Maybe put one more string on the bottom. Lots of possibilities with 8/5.

I prefer Extended E9, but I’m in a great minority. I think the first thing to consider is if you want a 12 string Universal or if you really want Extended E9.

On my first 12, I started with Universal only to discover I valued the comparative simplicity of Extended E9 as well as the fact I didn’t perceive much value in going any lower than a 6 string guitar player’s low E.

However, I think it could be easily argued that the most savvy option for a player without preconceptions is adopting a variant of the 8x5 Universal tuning from the start.

I've got a handle on the E9 and adding a couple strings wouldn't be too much to handle.
The point I'm making is all the extra hardware included is a far better deal.

Alan Montsion wrote:I've got a handle on the E9 and adding a couple strings wouldn't be too much to handle.

You might be surprised. It’s a whole new way of looking at your strings and placing your pick hand fingers.

The point I'm making is all the extra hardware included is a far better deal.

As long as you have most of the changes you’re used to having, yeah why not leave the rest on to see what new games you can play.

I have a S12extE9 7x7 that is superfun to play. The 2 extra low strings makes all the open/closed voiced triads a breeze to understand and makes total sense for the right hand fingerings.

With 7 or more pedals one would consider setups where one use both feet on pedals now and then (which means playing without R-foot on vol pedal and maybe engaging RKL while accessing some of the rightmost pedals.

With 8 pedals and 5 kneelevers I would use a setup like this.
P0 A B C P5 P6 P7 P8
LKL LKV LKR and RKL RKR

changes on P0 P5 P6 P7 P8 are your own additional preferances imo
Take into consideration that P8 and/or P7 might be used by the right foot at some time.
Pedal A B C would be the standard E9 pedal changes (maybe add the 11th string G#-A on B pedal)

I never think of my 7+7 ExtE9 as a universal. I do have a D10 with a C6 neck and I feel no need to duplicate those same grips on the 12 string. The ExtE9 gives me all those voicings and even more (in a different way)

ExtE9 is a lot more intuitive and well laid out when you are working with inversions of triads, either it beeing closed or open voiced triads. The 3 open E notes there makes soooo much sense as a right hand reference.

I have 10 string E9 3+4. D10 8+8 w E9/C6 and 12string ExtE9 7+7. IF I could have only one of them I would choose the 12str ExtE9. For certain things, the C6 neck is sometimes a lil easier to use but for other stuffs it is not half close as easy as the extE9.

If you can afford 8x5 extE9, go for it, you wont regret.

B.Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7

I will get the S12 thx

Excellent choice

I played an S12 Ext E9th the other day. I think it was 3x4.
Jim Plalanscar had set the string-12-E to drop a step-and-a-half, like an E9th Boo-Wha on the F-lever, giving a solid low Root note to the AF combo Chord.
I do a similar thing on my Uni, where I lower string-12-B a whole-step to A, like an E9th Boo-Wha for the AB position.
I was able to get around on it no problem with regard to being able to play songs I know.
I was also able to play alot of the Swingy stuff I know with the E's lowered, or, release the E's and hit string-9-D to get the P6 function. A-pedal is kinda like P7, B-pedal makes the 6th chord into a 7th. I use a slant to lower string-7 for P5. You can do alot of 6th on 9th.
I still like Universal better, but on the other hand, Ext E9th typically has less pedals and levers, and the less linkage you have undeneath, the better everything works.

Is is an S10 Ext E9 set-up...gives me everything needed for any genre of music....

I did a video of my Ext E9 awhile back.
https://youtu.be/iJUiMp_I-O0

Great demo, Rick. Thanks for posting.

Fred Treece wrote:Great demo, Rick. Thanks for posting.

Definitely. I watched Rick's vid many times when I was starting out on extended E9 (D9 in my case) to make sure it was the direction I wanted to go

Larry's 10-string setup is good but I would call it compressed rather than extended as he's ditched the D string.

To me the wider distinction between extended and universal is the presence or absence of that string. If your idea of a uni is two necks in one (rather than "one big tuning") then you need to bring your C6 grips with you and that D gets in the way and has to go.

If it's more important to keep a ton of stuff you learned with string 9 over the years, it probably needs to stay.

Send me your 12 string Ext E9 copedents.
I can make adjustments later but something for the initial order.

Ian, I never learned the standard S10 B/D 10/9....I just set it up coming from standard guitar...Once In the 90’s, at Scotties St Louis convention when I played Bobbe Seymour came to me and told me that was an Ext E9,

I guess the nice thing about a backlog is I get to change my mind

Decided on an SD10 5x5