Accompanying a singer...

Joe A. Camacho · Posted 11 Dec 2006 12:14 pm

I usually play band in a band format, but I've been playing with a singer/song writer lately. Looking for some tips on how to fill out the sound. Thanks, Joe

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

When the singer turns around and gives you some dirty looks you know you are playing just about right. The singer instictivly knows when the pedal guitarist is upstaging the vocal.

edit: Smile

[This message was edited by Bill Hatcher on 11 December 2006 at 12:29 PM.]

Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

Joe,

Check out the links to Charley Pride and Lloyd Green over in the "Steel On The Web" section. Granted, you gotta be smokin' hot to be accompanying the vocal like Lloyd is here, but it still may give you an idea how to approach it.

Michael Douchette · From: Gallatin, TN (deceased)

If his/her mouth is moving, don't play...

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Mikey D...

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Or as Jeff Newman used to say "show them what you can't play".

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

In the context of duet singer/songwriter performance with steel and singer on acoustic guitar, I have no problem playing while the singer is singing (not busy stuff--pads & chords.) I'm still struggling with the prime directive: don't play the same notes that the singer is singing. When it happens, it's unintended--a screw up. It sure points out the intonation issues with one of us. Personally, this challenge represents making the full transition from playing songs at home, solo, and fully crossing over into the role of accompanist/partner. A lot of stuff that works solo is NOT going to cut it when there is a clearly defined 'lead' (the singer).
----and a definite yes!---Lloyd with Charley P is a frequent go-to source for me. WWLD (what would Lloyd do?)

[This message was edited by Jon Light on 11 December 2006 at 03:09 PM.]

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Joe, I've found that in a quieter, duo format, you can get a lot more mileage out of playing in the lower register (using the lower strings, and playing lower positions on the neck) than you can in a band situation.

I try to go for a rich, thick sound to fill in the low-end normally provided by the bass.

[This message was edited by Tucker Jackson on 11 December 2006 at 04:35 PM.]

Twayn Williams · From: Portland, OR

Jon Light wrote:

Michael Douchette · From: Gallatin, TN (deceased)

WWLD (what would Lloyd do?)
--------
Man, where IS the Windex?? This monitor is a disaster...

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Mikey D...

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Music to me is a conversation...Use the technique to communicate back and forth with someone> they talk you listen; they listen while you talk.
Ricky

Colby Tipton · From: Crosby, Texas, USA

Thats why you pad on the low register.

Joe A. Camacho · Posted 11 Dec 2006 11:09 pm

Thanks for the tips, I'm going to play through my lowest wattage tube amp too, hope to get a little growl through it.

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Twayn---I'm talking about real-time unisons, as opposed to echoed lines. If you both arrive at the same note and one of you is pitchy (with me its pitchy, with a singer, it's 'personality'), it can sound like crap. And when it happens, it's because I was going for a harmony and goofed and ended up with a unison. I don't worry much about rules but this one has been a problem for me on occasion. Solution? Become a better player.

[This message was edited by Jon Light on 12 December 2006 at 02:33 AM.]

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Well Ricky, sometimes working with a singer can be like being with a wife..

They talk while you listen..

and

You listen while they talk !

Howard Tate · From: Leesville, Louisiana, USA, R.I.P.

I think listening to songs with Smiley Roberts on steel is a good lesson. He does it just right.

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Howard

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

"Thanks for the tips, I'm going to play through my lowest wattage tube amp too, hope to get a little growl through it."

I like that type of sound as well, especially behind a real clean-voiced vocalist to add some flavor.

And as others as more or less suggested - think about all the things you could possibly play - and then don't.

Less is more. My style on steel and guitar is not recommended, as I play pretty "busy", but very lightly or with rhythmic "punches" (comes from listening to a lot of Clarence White). It can work, but not if you're playing "normal" steel stuff. But even with that I still tend to lay out a lot. Nothing makes the steel have more impact than NO steel for the preceding few bars of a song.

Ron Randall · From: Dallas, Texas, USA

Just because you can, does not mean you should.

Some bands/groups will have a number in the set that features the steel guitar. Get your hot licks in here.

Then go back to playing no more than 2 notes at a time.(thank you Jeff Newman)

Ron

Ernie Pollock · From: Mt Savage, Md USA

Damn, I miss Jeff Newmans witt, he could really floor us good ol boys.

Ernie

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David Collins · From: Madison, North Carolina, USA

I, like Jim, tend to be a little busy and have a hard time "laying out" although I know it would be better if I did.

I guess the difference is, if I read Jims post correctly, is that HE is happy with his playing (nothing wrong with that), I'm not very happy with this aspect of mine.

I guess it's my bluegrass background of playing lots of rolls all of the time.

Maybe enough practice will get me out of this habit. It is something that I work on.

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David Collins
www.alpinesoap.com

Aaron Harms · From: Missouri, USA

Sorry for hopping on this late, but it's finals week here:/

If I'm reading your initial post right, you're only playing with one other person, who may or may not be playig acoustic as well. This is ALL I do as a semi-steel player, and I've found that it really depends on your particular singer/songwriter.

The nice fellow I play with, Noah Earle, is really diverse, stylistically, so I end up playing all the other instruments, and only steeling for part of the night. If the song needs the "wheedlie deedlies" I tend to move to electric guitar (not so much soloing from me on steel), but for good rich chord movements, you can't beat that lower register on the steel...my advice would be to take the prior advice--play a little--and learn/use lots of different chord movements/transitions/inversions.

Also, unless there are other steelers in the crowd that are staring you down, the crowd (and most singer/songwriters) LOVE that A pedal mash and or release.

I've also just recently started thinking of the steel as the horn/string section, depending on the particular song--for more R&B stuff, horn stabs and harmony lines seem to also work well, particularly with the grit you'll get from your amp

I'd also say listen to Red Rhodes on the Mike Nesmith albums...that was where I initially figured out that I could be the only other person on stage....and that was ok.

Lots of luck!

Aaron

Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

Knowing when NOT to play is as important as when TO play,sometimes more so.

Jeff Lampert · From: queens, new york city

IMO, there is no fundamental reason that a steel should "lay out", as opposed to any other instrument. As was mentioned, in bluegrass, the banjo and fiddles are constantly playing. In many styles of music, a piano is constantly playing. In rock an roll, the guitarist is often constantly comping. And i have heard songs where Lloyd Green and Buddy Charleton play noticeably while the singing is taking place. Of course, it is true that if you are selective in where you place your steel licks, then when they do appear, it will have more impact. However, by doing that, you deprive the rest of the song of the value of the steel. And if all the other musicians in the band decided to "lay out" so that they would have more impact, there'd be no playing from anyone. The style of music, rhythm, and the feel of the song should dictate how you choose to orchestrate the steel, and ones own musicality (or lack thereof) will determine the effectiveness of the playing, not some soundbite about having to "lay out". My .02 cents.

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[url=http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeff's_jazz.htm]Jeff's Jazz[/url]

Gibson Hartwell · From: Missoula, Montana, USA

Joe,

I'd agree with most folks here about padding on the lower register. The other thing I try to to is to reserve the lowest register for effect. You can really prop the chorus or certain lines in a song with those lowest notes if you use them sparingly. I try to be careful about the use of notes higher than the singer is singing. I think our ears tend to gravitate to the highest notes, and sometimes that can be distracting. Not that I'll never play higher than the singer, but I try to be more aware of the interplay in the upper registers. Hope this helps!

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Every time a steel guitar bends a note it draws attention to itself. Don't use the AB corn pedal bends unless you really mean it.
If you find yourself automaticly bending into every pedals down chord you play you have a problem.

Also pay attention to the story of the song. Often the 3rd verse ties the whole thing together. If it is an important part of the story try not playing at all.

I practice this stuff is by listening to string quartets and following the viola part. Lots of great insights there for an improvising accompanist. The Ellington trombone lines are perfect for that also.

I try not to think about my own playing and focus on making the singer and song sound good. Forget about all those licks and pedalsteel stuff and you will have all the gigs you want.

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Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website

[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 20 December 2006 at 09:57 AM.]

[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 20 December 2006 at 09:58 AM.]

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

We all obviously love the sound of the steel or we wouldn't be putting ourselves through all of this- and- as such- when we are playing- especially early on in our playing careers- I think that most of us tend to overplay. I tend to think of the steel as being icing on the cake- ie.- the icing is the perfect compliment to the cake- in small amounts. Listening to a song where the steel is prominently featured and playing most of the time leaves little room for wanting to hear it more. In my world- I find myself wanting to hear it- especially when it is not there- and when it comes in it is usually more satisfying then when it is in your face all the time. Leave them wanting more- not less.

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