The Steel Guitar Forum

So learning more about how PSG works.

My thing at the moment is that I want right knee going left (E9 standard Emmons copedant) to drop 6th string a whole step when open AS WELL AS when my AB pedals are pressed. Currently when AB pressed, the RKL doesn't quite lower it all the way (a GFI expo, factory set-up).

So this is what a split tuning does, correct? (confused because I've heard of split tuning but my guitar doesn't have that & never seen them until looking at more threads).

And compensators are only to combat cabinet drop? (not a big prob for me but I do notice it).

Will a compensator be able to fix the thing mentioned above?

And my guitar not built with the split tuners, you can't really add that on, correct?

And obviously you can have a guitar with split tuners as well as compensators if needed?

Thanks, sorry for the ignorance.

The easiest way to do it is don't press the B pedal.

If you want it to drop a full tone whether the B pedal is used or not would require another rod going from the RKL to a spare raise hole in the 6th finger, and a specific order of tuning

The usual setup 6th string is to fully lower 6 from G# to F# (full tone) with the lowering knee lever. And the "split" is to lower the 6th string from G# to G (half tone) when the B pedal is depressed and the knee lever operated.

I had an S-10 Expo and the split tuning is not standard. Adding an additional "raise" puller and rod from the knee lever lowering cross rod will allow tuning the split properly. I now have a GFI Ultra and it has the split setup. Tuning is "backward". With the split tuning rod added, you tune the "split" with the regular lowering nylon tuner (tune it with the B pedal depressed and knee lever operated). Then tune the full lower with the newly added "raise" puller rod nylon tuner. The split tuning is detailed on the GFI site.

Compensators are most often used to adjust the first and seventh string F# notes to sound "sweet" as a sixth with pedals A&B down. Cabinet drop takes this part of the way but some players feel the need for more.

As for having the G# on string six stay at F# with the B pedal down, I don't know any guitar that will do that. Richard's idea sounds reasonable, but the whole point of split tuning there is to get a tunable, very useful G note on six, which can easily be done as Jack explains.

With a push pull guitar, raises dominate; when you have lowered G# to F# with a lever, applying the B pedal will pull the sixth string right up to A, and releasing it while holding the lever will give you a three semitone drop to F#.

The GFI Expo is an all pull

Jack has it exactly right. It may sound like a wonky setup with the extra rod but in my experience it works perfectly. Highly recommended.

Jack Stoner wrote:The usual setup 6th string is to fully lower 6 from G# to F# (full tone) with the lowering knee lever. And the "split" is to lower the 6th string from G# to G (half tone) when the B pedal is depressed and the knee lever operated. .

So I think you're saying what I want to hear, but just let me dumb it down for my cat brain and get clarification.

Open strings, basic grip strings 8, 6, 5. An E major triad. String 6 is the third and can lower a whole tone for a second.

With A&B pedals down it becomes an A chord (5th, root, third). String 6 is now an A and the root.

With A&B down, I want to RKL and bring that A down all the way to a G that is in tune. I want that grip with A&B and make the root to a flat 7, so that I can resolve it.

AND, that grip with no pedals down, I could still RKL and lower the 6 string a whole tone and be in tune.

Is that what a split will do? Please say yes.

Add your E lower lever with string six lowered a whole step you get B major, the V chord, and if you release the sixth string lower it makes B6, add the B pedal and you get B7, all in tune . Very useful changes.
Can't emphasize too much that the sixth string lower must be on the opposite knee from the E lowers to get all the change has to offer.

Good enough for me,

My next guitar will have those suckers.

Mr. Stoner, I'll have to dig in and learn how to add the parts if I want to make my current PSG do that (BTW I searched GFI site and could not find anything regarding split tuning).

Thanks all.

I remember seeing some split tuning info on the GFI site but can't find it now. I'll have to dig into it later.

Jon Voth wrote:I'll have to dig in and learn how to add the parts if I want to make my current PSG do that

See the diagram in Lee Baucum's post. You just need to add one pull rod to end up with a tunable split.

To complicate this farther, if you have a Franklin pedal, then you will need to do the knee lever splits on any of those Franklin strings with double rod method even though you may have split screws at the changer. My Zum Hybrid & Encore both have the extra rod splits from the factory.

Danny, he has a GFI Expo (S-10) with stock 3/5 and no splits or compensators installed.

I went through the split tuning procedures and what needs to be installed.

I had an Expo and never felt the need for compensators (although I did consider installing 6th string split and adding a LKV and the 5th string split to make the pedal setup the same as I had on a Franklin).

Yes Jack, you were thorough as usual. I was just adding additional information. When I got my Zum Hybid, I wondered why it had the double rods & asked Bruce about it. It was because of the Franklin. I just thought maybe some one else reading the post would find that info useful. Hope you are adjusting well to your new surroundings.

Jack, please check my explanation for adjusting return compensaters in another post to see if I got it right from memory. Thanks

The "Return compensators" are for a string that is both raised and lowered. The lower will tend to come back sharp (hysteresis) and the return compensator will tune out the sharpness and allow the lower to come back properly in tune.

The GFI does not have return compensators (either the Expo or Ultra). That would have to be a user added feature.

Sorry for the confusion. I was referring you to a different post. I’ll bow out now.