The Steel Guitar Forum

I've been stewing over this for a pretty long time. Many players I hear in the last few years sound a lot alike..licks, phrases, attack, tone, etc. Not finding fault, just wondering if that is really what they are working towards.
Just a note, I will probably have to split this up, 'cause I have many opinions and thoughts about this whole realm we're in playing steel guitar.
Because of the glut of information and teaching examples on line, I believe new players(and some not so new) are getting lost in the pursuit of some kind of personal direction in their playing...and it IS personal, or should be.
All the great players, past and present, that we can name within 5 to 10 seconds of hearing have what I am all about in this post...an identity.
When I started playing, fairly late in life(21 years old), I really only had one main goal..play in tune no matter what it was I was trying to play. When I left New England for Texas in '75(with some encouragement from the extremely talented John Macy) I was surprised to get hired in an established band almost immediately. I was told they wanted me because I didn't play like 'other steel players', and could play in tune. Texas guys might remember 'Dogtooth Violet', my first band there. I would learn intros or lead sections for songs ONLY if they asked me to..mostly because I couldn't afford to buy albums to learn from..lol.
I ended up in most of the studios in Houston because I could play in tune, and learn parts by ear quickly. I worked first with the great Bill Holford with Andy Bradley, quickly being refered to Soundmasters and Sugarhill studios. My first 6 months was spent 'fixing' recordings made by other steel players they had hired..(mainly learning then playing them in tune). I guess from this first installment my main point is, develop your ear...timing, pitch, phrasing, tone. These are the things that will help you on your path to success as a player, either personally or professionally, and develop your OWN identity.

Jeff,
I agree with you.
With some pedal steel players, all they want to do is copy somebody else's licks.
It's no wonder they all sound alike.
If you asked them to play a complete song, they couldn't.
Erv

Thanks for your keen insight. I once had a guitar player/singer tell me he liked my playing because I played simple and in tune. I didn't have the heart to tell I played simple because that was all I knew.

Allen Peterson wrote:Thanks for your keen insight. I once had a guitar player/singer tell me he liked my playing because I played simple and in tune. I didn't have the heart to tell I played simple because that was all I knew.

Same. If you can't play anything punchy, then you have to concentrate extra hard on at least not being obnoxious, lol.

I've found a hard part about developing my ear and musical identity is keeping perspective when you think you've found a creative sensibility, but others either don't perceive it or see it's value. Do you decide that it must not be worth much and lose your creative confidence... or do you keep going down the same road that might lead to nowhere? I've hit dead ends before and also given up on things that I thought may have had promise.

Curt Trisko wrote:

Allen Peterson wrote:Thanks for your keen insight. I once had a guitar player/singer tell me he liked my playing because I played simple and in tune. I didn't have the heart to tell I played simple because that was all I knew.

Same. If you can't play anything punchy, then you have to concentrate extra hard on at least not being obnoxious, lol.

I've found a hard part about developing my ear and musical identity is keeping perspective when you think you've found a creative sensibility, but others either don't perceive it or see it's value. Do you decide that it must not be worth much and lose your creative confidence... or do you keep going down the same road that might lead to nowhere? I've hit dead ends before and also given up on things that I thought may have had promise.

I really appreciate your comment.

My playing is simple and pretty in-tune. I mostly play dobro and pedal guitar. On my Sho~Bud I use A-B-F-lever mostly, I have my own voice. To some, I'm considered a fantastic player; others feel I'm barely adequate. I have my own voice, for better, or worse.

Folks can learn great things from learning songs. Learning a song that speaks volumes into your heart is worth a lot more than learning songs for any other reason. JMO. Some tunes teach you the language of your way of thinking about melody and harmony. I tend to focus on songs that resonate the most. My only goal is to play like I want to. I love the Greats, I am a fan of so many players, but just don't feel the need to emulate them, much. Bobby Black, Lee Jeffriess and Joe Wright have my complete attention and inpire me, but I don't try to learn their actual licks, note-for-note. My approach is limiting and I accept that.

Folks like my playing, or don't. It's all good.

most stuff I hear now days is boring to me, it’s all same old stuff, nothing new or innovative , with exception of a very few players, most are just playing same old licks as fast as they can , and that’s ok for a song or two, but then it gets boring .... I haven’t heard anything new or exciting in a long time

Any chance you might post some examples of your playing that demonstrate your criticism? Perhaps the methods you used to get to this destination. I know it’s a long way around the other side of the barn but most musicians try to absorb everything they can from all prominent musicians and get in their head, learn their styles by copying them and out of that experience comes a new way to play that hopefully gets positive attention by your peers. There are a lot of boundaries you can’t cross if you don’t study the right things. I don’t see how you can have your own style otherwise but I would love to hear yours to see the difference you’re speaking of. There are some great young guys out there tearing it up and some old ones too still surprising us. Interesting post!!

Mike, there is plenty of videos with me playing on my web site , you are welcome to check it out ... I don’t play music to impress anyone , I play music because I enjoy it , and I can pretty much care or less what anyone else thinks about my playing

This Post isn’t about impressing anybody, don’t know how you came to that conclusion. It’s about finding your own style as a player and what methods one could use to do so.

When I replied the Damir Besic Post wasn’t there so perhaps there is where the error began, my question was for Mr. Peterson and his methods.

You can learn stuff from other players but you need to take what you learn and make it your own. after a time, you have to be able to play on your own without tab.

I friend of mine, who was a great guitar player, once said to me, “listen to everyone you can because no matter how good or how bad they are they know something that you don’t”.

Appreciate your opinion Jay Dee... you are someone who definitely has their own style and has been designing it for decades. One of the most individual sounds in the genres!

I certainly wasn't trying to make myself the best or only example of what I brought up, but through my entire career, I heard 'that was kinda' different', and not 'boy, that sounded like Buddy'! Maybe because the first 'steel' albums I bought were 'Can't Buy a Thrill', and Poco live.
I guess my playing style(?)..(makes me laugh!), if I have one is demonstrated on 'Killin' Time' album, or my personal favorite 'One Emotion' album.
The best compliment I ever received as a player was when the intro I played on Mark Chesnut's 'Too Cold At Home' recorded at Soundmaster's in Houston..was barely changed by Paul Franklin when it was re-recorded in Nashville. I still have a couple of the '45's Mark used to sell at his gigs early on that it was on. Randy Cornor, Rick Richards and I think Paul English were on that session.
I think we all 'take' what we think we can use from the great players, it's just a difficult jigsaw to take the pieces and assemble them into something of our own.

I don’t think your initial post was headed in that direction either, I think the ultimate goal is to have originality in your approach and execution but it comes to us all in different ways if at all. In the earlier years there were 30 great road or studio players all getting a piece of the pie. Today there’s barely a crumb to be had but The Americana / Indy Roots scene has opened many doors for players to search for their voice so maybe that Avenue will produce some new inspiration. They are out there on every instrument, hopefully we’ll hear them.

Jeff Peterson wrote:The best compliment I ever received as a player was when the intro I played on Mark Chesnut's 'Too Cold At Home' recorded at Soundmaster's in Houston..was barely changed by Paul Franklin when it was re-recorded in Nashville.

That was you?! That intro was one of the first things I ever learned how to play. I played it over and over again as a practice exercise. To me, it elevates the song so much.

Is it maybe because people want the “effect” of a pedal steel in their songs, and not for the player to actually play cohesive improvised melodies? A stylistic identity is a tough nut to crack if the bulk of your contribution to the band is stock intros and volume swelled pads and fills. For non-players, perhaps the perception of the identity is the instrument itself, not the player.

So many responses to respond to...I always played what I thought would work for any given song...try one, it worked, I was damn lucky...get 7 minutes to come up with something, lucky again...go until the producer said 'that'll work', whew! When the gun is pointed at your head, you just bloody play...when I was recording, if you copped a known lick, it just didn't work for them..hardly ever could you 'fall back'. This is the stuff that makes modern players like Tommy and Paul indespensible to producers..that bag of seemingly endless ideas and approaches. In that, they have what we all would like...the identity of the consumate musician. They didn't just happen..that's the 'long way around the barn'.
And, yes Curt, I played with Mark when he recorded 'Too Cold at Home'. Paul took my intro idea and 'Franklinized' it and sent a bunch of steel players home to woodshed.
He(Paul) is a monster. We all know it, that's why I was so flattered when he cut it.
A.V. Middlestadt gave me 'a few minutes' to come up with an intro for that song, and it was one of those 'whew' moments in the sudio when he said 'play that'!

I’m taking this as gold:

Jeff Peterson wrote: I guess from this first installment my main point is, develop your ear...timing, pitch, phrasing, tone. These are the things that will help you on your path to success as a player, either personally or professionally, and develop your OWN identity.

I’m not at the point where my main concern is sounding like someone else, except I wish I could sound like a few certain someone elses. I would be happy with an identity as a competent player.

I think that copying the licks, note for note, of a master player is a great learning technique. At least is was for me. While trying to find what they were doing, many times I would uncover something useful by pure mistake. I look at it like this. Would a child ever learn to talk if he never heard another human voice?

Mitch

I still use what I refer to as the "3-Theory." Simply put, it means playing the same thing three different ways. Used as a learning process it opens many ways to play in and around pockets.

Mitch Ellis wrote:I think that copying the licks, note for note, of a master player is a great learning technique. At least is was for me. While trying to find what they were doing, many times I would uncover something useful by pure mistake. I look at it like this. Would a child ever learn to talk if he never heard another human voice?

Mitch

Yup. If you have a slow-down machine(or even if you don't) it's like free lessons from a brilliant teacher who has infinite patience...and has sold millions!

Mitch Ellis wrote:I think that copying the licks, note for note, of a master player is a great learning technique. At least is was for me. While trying to find what they were doing, many times I would uncover something useful by pure mistake. I look at it like this. Would a child ever learn to talk if he never heard another human voice?

Mitch

Yup. If you have a slow-down machine(or even if you don't) it's like free lessons from a brilliant teacher who has infinite patience...and has sold millions!

Great post Jeff! To me the fastest and best way to play in tune is to record yourself in order to hear what you really sound like rather than what you think you hear on the fly. I've been doing that a bit lately (after 50 years of playing) and, while it is painful and a half century overdue, it was very humbling indeed but necessary IMHO. Another route is to play with a tuner in line and see if you are where you think you are. Remember- if you are using a Peterson w sweetened tuning it must be instead set on equal when using this method of checking yourself as sweetened tunings will not display correctly in any position other than open.

I think a part of the phenomena discussed is due to what seems to me the continuing decreasing use of instrumentals other than guitar (and not many of them either). This trend began with the British Invasion and for fiddle has been documented by Eddie Stubbs. The British Invasion just ended fiddle solos and breaks in country hits. I bet the same is true for steel. Some artists like Faron still stayed with a lot of the traditional instrumental stuff.