U12 How many pulls per pedal-4?

Tom Campbell · From: Houston, Texas, USA

I have a Sierra U12 and am thinking of repeating the 5th siting A# and 6th string C# pulls on the 9th and 10th strings also.
I already have some pedals that pull three strings successfully, but was wondering if any has used four.

Thanks for your input.

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

All steels are different--the Franklin has a rep for being able to do some extraordinary pulls, for instance. I have no idea what the Sierra's like. In my experience, if I remove the 10 string from the B pedal (I did this once, trying to diagnose some stiffness in the pedal--turned out it was something else) it removes a lot of resistance on the pedal. This suggests to me that adding a full step pull on the 10th string plus the full step pull on 9 to an already fairly loaded pedal (those two full step pulls on 5 & 6 strings have a fair amount of load on my guitars) will make for a pedal that requires a work boot to stomp. Can't hurt to try it, though.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I have a Sierra U-14, high to low

Ab,F#,D#,G#,E,B,G#,F#,E,B,G#,E,B,E

I'll number my strings 0-13, so your strings are 1-12. I do have the B->A# pull on both strings 5 and 9, and the B->C# pull on strings 5, 9, and 12.

I definitely have some 4-string pulls. I can't remember exactly which ones - it's not in front of me. The Sierra does these pretty well.

Tom Campbell · From: Houston, Texas, USA

Sorry, Correction:

My 5th string (B) raises to C# and my 6th string (G#) raises to A# an the same pedal. I want to repeat these same pulls on my 9th string (B) and 10th string (G#) using the same pedal. This will result in 4 pulls on this pedal.

David Doggett · Posted 7 Dec 2006 2:06 pm

Tom, it's gonna get pretty stiff with the pulls you are asking about, but only you can say if it is TOO stiff. I have three pulls on most of my pedals and knees on my Zum and MSA Millennium S12 unis, but don't have a 4th pull on anything. The A and B pedals are fine with the 3rd pull down on strings 12 and 10. On the C pedal I have a whole step pull from E to F# on string 8, and it makes that pedal pretty stiff. You just have to try it and see.

Edit after seeing your last post: Okay, it sounds like you are talking about what is usually pedal 7 on C6. On my E9/B6 unis I have string 5, B to C#; string 6, G# to A#; and string 10, G# to A#. You will be adding a whole step pull on string 9, B to C#. That will be fairly stiff, but might be workable.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 07 December 2006 at 02:14 PM.]

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

OK, I see what you're going for.

I don't have that pedal 7 change doubled on my Sierra. But I do have a 4-string pull on pedal 5. It's not 4 whole-step changes, some of them are half-steps - that may make a big difference.

Still, I have experimented with some other 4-string changes on that Sierra. I generally could get a stiff but tolerable pedal action by adjusting leverages. The reason I didn't keep those changes was not pedal action, but the fact that the extra pull didn't really work for me {edit - musically}. If you have a musical use for that change, I think it would be worth a try.

[This message was edited by Dave Mudgett on 07 December 2006 at 08:17 PM.]

Tom Campbell · From: Houston, Texas, USA

This pedal change gives a G7 at the 1st fret. So, at the 1st fret, LKR=C chord, 1st fret open=F chord, and this change=G7 chord.

In essence 1,4,5 all on the 1st fret, etc.
Also, if you use this pedal change with LKR you get a G6th chord, if you use this pedal with LKL you get a Gmaj7. Very useful change.

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

Adjustable raise assist springs are what you need. Sierra doesn't have them but you might be able to monkey something together if you're a hobby level machinist with a good mechanical apptitude. My Excel has them on all 12 strings and it allows you to make multiple pulls as easy as you so desire and it's actually possible to make them too easy.I have two quad pulls - one on a pedal and one on a lever and they're both real playable.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

"...thinking of repeating the 5th siting A# and 6th string C# pulls..."

I'm thinking you wrote it backwards.
You mean you want to double up the P7 function and octave lower right?...
B>C#, and G#>A#.
I'd say go for it!
Raises on Sierras are easy.
Rod it up and let us know how you like it!
FWIW, every pedal/lever on my Sierra U12 has at least 3 pulls, with a few 4 bangers on there, too.
I never rodded up a double P7, though.
Pete B.

[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 07 December 2006 at 09:31 PM.]

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

I have 4 pulls on my B6 B pedal. It's a little stiffer than the other pedals, but not enough to be a problem.

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Warning: I have a telecaster and I'm not afraid to use it.
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My web site

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

Hi Tom:

Sierra guitars have a 3 position rod pull on the pedal and you may want to use the first position near the pedal rack for this 4 string pull. The other end of the rod can hooks into 1 of 2 places and the outer position will give the best leverage. If you use the above, the pedal will travel longer but will be the easiest to push. I hope this helps.

Lenny

Tom Campbell · From: Houston, Texas, USA

Thanks for the responses guys.

Lenny, I will try your suggestions, the Sierra is very flexible in this area, thanks.

I'm trying to reduce my number of pedals. I figure this pull coupled with LKL (E>F) will eliminate the need for the maj.7th pedal/pull that raises the G#>A#. Less pedal bar clutter!

P.S. Pete, I use your setup for my top four strings 1-4 (C#, G#, F#, E).

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Or you could put the G# raise next to the "A pedal" which would appear to give you all the advantages of the 4 raises on one pedal, plus letting you raise the G# independently. I do it this way, but I don't raise the low G#.



       1      2


F#


D#


G#


E


B          ++C#


G#  ++A#


F#


E


B          ++C#


G#  ++A#


E


B

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Some interesting alternative thoughts on the subject. Back to the original question---after re-assessing my response I'd say that on both my Carter and my Fessenden the pedal (it's P5 on my semi-twisted setup) the double full step raise is not especially stiff. Adding two more full step raises? Who knows. But I sort of implied that one would be piling on to an already hefty load but that's not the case.

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