PUP’s..(Related to TONE)

[Larry Ball]

I am interested in hearing some comments on “Tone” related to a Pup.

The reason I ask this question is, recently I acquired the Bobbie Seymour video “ All Pull Maintenance” for the Steel Guitar. First I must say it was very educational and rewarding to watch. A statement Bobbie made was regarding the Pup and the fact that all they did was amplify the sound of the guitar itself. I other words all the tone was coming from the guitar itself. I am fully aware of the effects of wood and the construction of the guitar that would play a large role in the tone. Also I am familiar with the playing characteristics of the player and their effects on tone. Also how Pup’s pick up string vibrations etc. etc...

Now an acoustic instrument such as a “Martin six string” would have an identifiable tone. However a steel isn’t acoustic . I recently ordered a “New Williams SD12 Extended E9 “where I studied a number of Pup’s before I settled on the Telonics X12. My decision was based on a number of factors other than tone itself.

So how can a Pup Manufacturer claim their tone is better than others.?

[Bill Terry]

The biggest problem (IMO) is that tone is entirely subjective. Before anyone could claim something is better, you'd have to have a consensus on what is 'good'?

[Gene Tani]

listen here: https://soundcloud.com/jolt12/sets/pickup-comparisons

explained here https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=248049

Carter page clips in 2010: https://web.archive.org/web/20100118203 ... sounds.htm

Also what Jerry Wallace, who recently passed, wrote: https://steelguitarforum.com/Forum11/HTML/001428.html

[Larry Ball]

I am beginning to think now my thread may have been answered multiple times by other threads. I guess Bobbie Seymour’s comment got me wondering again about Pup choice.

[Donny Hinson]

I don't know of any pro that calls pickups "pups". I don't know how that got started.

That said, different pickups do make slight differences in the sound, but calling one "better" than another is like saying a sports car is better than a truck. It's all just personal opinion, based on past experience and utilization.

I'm just a hacker, but I feel that of all the changes you can make in the sound chain, the pickup is probably the least significant.

[Gene Tani]

"What to do before you buy/install new pickups"

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtop ... t=#2904084

Also would help if you could borrow a clean boost pedal like TC spark or preamp (Sarno black box, rack mount from Presonus/ART) or a good mixer (Peavey, Yamaha, Mackie, soundcraft, A&H), listen thru good headphones

[Bob Carlucci]

Nothing
"better or worse" in a good quality pickup... Just different.

Lots of great players that really know more about steels than I ever will have said on this forum that pickups make no difference in tone, but you could never convince me of that in a million years.

Think of a Gibson Les Paul with the humbuckers removed and 2 strat style pickups installed... You instantly have totally transformed the sound of that guitar... Same thing applies to a pedal steel.... bob

[Bill C. Buntin]

It is absolutely subjective. And absolutely personal preference.

A example comparison (yet still subjective) geo L e66 vs bl705. Very similar pickup. But personal experience, the 705 is a little better to my ears.

I’m sure there are 10s to maybe 100 ways we could compare all of the popular and usual
Pickups.

I think they are all just different.

Another example, original Mullen pickups, to me, are some of the best sounding pickup ever made.

Bill

[John Goux]

Pickups do sound different. They may not change the inherent character of the guitar, but they can enhance it or detract from it.

Sometimes it is a matter of matching the right pickup with your instrument. A bright pickup with a bright guitar...a warm pickup with a bright guitar...a warm pickup with a dark guitar...it depends on your taste in sound, and also what else is in your signal chain.

It all matters a little bit, from your bar and picks, strings, pickup, volume pedal, amplifier and speaker. It is a sonic stew. The pickup is one of those ingredients.

Be suspect of platitudes...”Famous player allegedly said...”.
As Groucho almost quipped....
”Who are you going to believe, me, or your own ears?”
John

[Larry Bressington]

Experimenting with an EQ pedal is much more affordable and user freindly to adjust/shift/tweak frequencies on a regular basis to please the ever floating and searching ear.

[John Drury]

They said they do not have a clue.....

[Darren Mortillaro]

I tend to like the mid 1960's sound. Were steels single coil in those days, or is that "classic country" tone more a function of tube amps? The tone overall seems warmer in those classic recordings. A lot of factors contribute I'm sure.

Did they use 15" speakers back then? Or did they use standard fender combo amps?

Also what pickup would you say is the closest match to the old Sho-Bud tone? Would that be the George L SS?

[Jack Stoner]

My late 82 franklin came with Lawrence 705 pickups. I changed to Lawrence 710's about 20 years ago. The Franklin still sounds like a Franklin, but there seems to be more clarity with the 710's.

I have a used GFI Ultra D-10 that I acquired about the 1st of the year. It was built in 2000 according to GFI. It has a George L's E66 on the E9th neck and the stock GFI II pickup on the C6th neck (the GFI pickups are made by George L's and physically looks like an E66). The E66 seems to have more high end (brighter) than the GFI II. There's no pickup height adjustment on a GFI so that is not a cause for difference between the pickups.

[Larry Bressington]

I think most of the Vintage tone we heard was more from the recordings back then, a lot of mic's etc and tape to tape back then long before Hi-Fi and the perfect pitch we have trained our ears to accept today. Plug an old 50's tele into a NV400 and it's as fat as any other tele, 'it's only plink plink if you make it sound like that. AM (amplitude modulation) was the norm frequencies back then, lot's of crackle from thunderstorms even before airwaves got jammed, it was all about cutting through.

[Darren Mortillaro]

I think most of the Vintage tone we heard was more from the recordings back then, a lot of mic's etc and tape to tape back then long before Hi-Fi and the perfect pitch we have trained our ears to accept today. Plug an old 50's tele into a NV400 and it's as fat as any other tele, 'it's only plink plink if you make it sound like that. AM (amplitude modulation) was the norm frequencies back then, lot's of crackle from thunderstorms even before airwaves got jammed, it was all about cutting through.

Yeah, it's my understanding tape shaved a lot of the high end off, without accounting for anything else. Something about those old recordings that are more appealing to me. There are probably a variety of factors, not to mention the songwriting and musicianship.

[Kenneth Mennen]

My 2 cents - you may want to try a Sarno Freeloader. My first guitar, the one that got me into steel, was a CL impulse-buy of a Fender 800. It had a single coil with a tone circuit (like all my guitars), and it sounded great through my Fender amps. I then ordered a Williams, which doesn't have a tone circuit, and when I got it I found the BL705 to be almost shrill. I then thought it had be the pickup, so I tried a couple of different ones with modest effect, but it still didn't sound as good as my Fender 800 had. The only difference I reasoned? The tone circuit. So I built one in a hobby box just to see, and it was better. Not where I wanted it, but better. Since a tone circuit "loads" the pickup, I then figured the Sarno Free"loader" made sense as a way to get the effect I was looking for, so I bought one. I was very, very happy with it, where now, to me, it's indispensable.