The Steel Guitar Forum

Hello all,

I am a recent (January this year) return to playing. I was playing way back in my youth (late 70's), but like most kids in the north, I got sick of hearing people ask what that funny thing with the strings was, and traded my -Bud for a six string -which gave me more fits then trying to learn the steel so I sold it. My son decided to try playing six string and I could not kkep my hands off it. This led to GAS and the eventual purchase of my current D-10 steel. (Sorry for the long intro)
I have read some of the posts on the forum regarding this lovely little dead spot that seems to drive me crazy right at fret 12. Being a "re-learner" I'm blaming me and my uncooperative hands for excentuating this, however this one seems really bad - as in its not just a sort of hollow -chorusy thing -but actually seems to deaden the vibration of the strings. Its driven me to the point of trying to find the camera so I can send pics of my guitar to Billy Cooper and see if I can work out a trade. I do really like my guitar (it's got a black top -so it ought to sound good -right) and when its all polished up it looks nearly new, stays in tune -not to mention sounds good to me - everywhere but fret 12. Is there something I can thighten, losen, (Send it to Tommy) - Send it to anyone, or more favorably and less expensively do with the bar hand or whatever to improve this?

------------------
Carter D-10, GK Pre-amp, and one old (univox) Stage 720 twin.

David, the 12th fret is a natural harmonics fret being exactly 1/2 of the string length. What is happening is the strings are vibrating behind the bar which takes vibrations from in front. You need to dampen behind the bar with your bar hand as much as possible to keep this from happening.
Jerry

Thanks Jerry,

If I flatten my fingers behind the bar at 12 I get the totally dead string thing, (cuts out if your just sliding past too) - if I lift 'em so there is no dampening then I get the chorusy sound. I'm sure I am doing something wrong.
Perhaps I am not putting enough pressure on the strings both dampening and from the bar? I tend to pick and do everything else a bit on the light side. How much if any "deflection" ought one to have under the bar -or how much should the strings be less then perfectly straight so you know your not pressing too hard or not hard enough?

------------------
Carter D-10, GK Pre-amp, and one old (univox) Stage 720 twin.

The 12th fret is a natural null between the nodes (the first and second half of the vibrating string). Some guitars are worse than others and longer scale 25" and 25.5" guitars being better. Joaquin Murphey's T-8 Bigsby - certainly one of the best sounding and apparently the most valuable steel guitar of all time was terribly dead at the 12th fret. Murph's solution - stay off the 12th fret.

Dave
A little vibrato with the bar will add some sustain.
Tony

Thanks all

OK, following Jerry's suggestion I discovered if I really tuck the ring finger in tight behind the bar, it is not as dead. Pressure does not help, but way to light is worse.
I'm still looking for the camera, -kids they move stuff on ya- but that might be more related to the fact that Billy has a D-10 Sho-bud in that "Loyd" kinda green, and that was my dream guitar way back.

------------------
Carter D-10, GK Pre-amp, and one old (univox) Stage 720 twin.

That's why a lot of players play in F ,Bb C or any other position that dosen't put you on the 12th fret.It's a normal problem so just move up or down a fret. You'll be a lot happier.

I have two MSA's of which both are not really dead at the 12th but have a very noticeable drop in response. That's why I do Bud's Bounce and Danny Boy in F and avoid the 12th fret if possible on anything else.

I tend to mute the strings behind the bar in fret positions where there are natural overtones, and not mute them in all other positions.

the 12th fret problem is on a lot of good playing steels but most experienced players usually dampen behind the 12th fret with as much [open] left hand as possible and that will help as i have seen many of the great -players do that is the only solution that i know of as this [is ] the center of the strings tuning thanks hope this will help in your delima tommy

I see I'm not the only one that doesn't care about playing on the 12th fret. I use other frets when possible but when I'm on the 12th fret, I use a stronger attack with the right hand and use open strings (4,5,6)4th open or 3,4,5 with 3rd open. I also use hammer ons on 3,4,5,6 at the 12th fret in the A chord position. Been pretty much the same with every guitar I've had which is about 40 personal guitars over the years.

Since I will be mostly playing at church I will have a hard time changing the key on some songs -it sounds like avoidance is the best. When I can't avoid it - I have found that the tight ring finger, or on a short slide say from 10-12 spreading the fingers and lifting those behind the bar just as I get there seems to work. I'm OK at 11 or 13 so maybe my dead spot is not as big as others.

Thanks for all the help -