The Steel Guitar Forum

If this has been discussed ad nauseum, I apologize in advance. I searched the forum but didn't find anything quite like this request.

I'm about 4 months into my learning journey and having a blast. I am doing all of my practicing through an Antelope interface into a set of headphones. Occasionally I'll send the signal through GarageBand and play with the effects there. My only electronics are a Boss Eq200 and a stobostomp tuner. I would like to complete my setup so if/when I do go play out, I can get that tone.

I am envious of the 'fat' sound most of the people I watch on YouTube achieve. I thought it would maybe be helpful if you experienced guys could do a brief listing of the equipment you use to get that fat tone.

I am playing a Mullen RP. My amp is a '65 original Deluxe Reverb but I haven't even gotten so far as to play much through it.

Thanks in advance.

I could go on and on about gear, what I've used over the years and what's stuck (i like gear). But in my opinion the biggest factor in achieving a clear, but also fat sound is what happens with your hands. I spent a lot of money and effort looking for an amp / fx chain that would make the low notes sound present but at the same time having the high register stuff sound full. I just know that the longer I play the less all of that seems to matter. I play a Marlen guitar through a 50 watt Standel combo btw. I really like those '65 deluxe reissue amps too fwiw. Two of them make a great louder stage rig for pedal steel. I guess if there was some gear that is most important to me to achieve what you describe it would be my old Marlen guitar and the blue herco and hoffmeyer picks that I'm so used to.

Best advice I got came from Dave Grafe: "Pick like you mean it"
Often newbies will hold back...

As a recent noob myself, I can say it’s hard to pick like you mean it when what comes out isn’t what you meant at all. But I understand what Steve L. and Brett are saying. Building the confidence in your ability is one of the keys to achieving good tone. I think it can work the other way, too.

I should hope there is some good tone to be found in that original DR of yours, Mark. For quiet practice, I play through a Boss ME-25 and use it to interface with my computer backing tracks. Frankly, playing through my not-that-great headphones feels like playing with one hand tied behind my back. But it makes playing live at full volume that much more of a treat.

I think we all agree tone is in the hands, but it's nice to have an amp that doesn't fight you. There happens to be a Session 500 over in Pueblo priced for a song. Not connected in any way, but it looks like a great deal and should absolutely be able to deliver the fat tone you are after.

https://pueblo.craigslist.org/msg/d/pue ... 68110.html

Tim Whitlock wrote:There happens to be a Session 500 over in Pueblo priced for a song.

As Tim says, it's a great deal. The seller told me it's been serviced, has original Black Widow, remote switch, and amp cover. Original owner is her brother, a pedal steel player in Fowler.

I had considered checking it out, but ultimately decided I didn't need "just one more" amp I'd seldom (if ever) use.

Hot tip: Cut the treble and dime the bass on that Deluxe Reverb. May help in the "fat" tone department.

Mark Epstein wrote:
I am envious of the 'fat' sound most of the people I watch on YouTube achieve. I thought it would maybe be helpful if you experienced guys could do a brief listing of the equipment you use to get that fat tone.

So, you're 4 months into the pedal steel and you don't sound like guys that have been doing it over 20 years. Don't feel bad. When I was 4 months into playing lead guitar, I didn't sound like Leon Rhodes or Lonnie Mack. If you investigate a little further, you'll probably discover that many players who get "that sound" use a different setup...different guitars, amplifiers, speakers, pedals, etc. There's no one single formula to getting a good sound. It's the player + the equipment + years of dedication and practice. You've got a good steel, now get a good steel amplifier and some lessons. That's the fastest road to where you want to go, but keep in mind...it's not a short trip!

Good luck.

As a semi-professional banjo player, I totally understand that what separates the 'good' banjo player from the 'beginner' is the right hand technique. However, I also think that certain pieces of the electronics puzzle can help.

I've put in reverb and delay along with the eq which helped immensely but I still think there's a bit of a magic bullet when I look at the number of pedals/effects that good steel players use and am trying to get an idea if that is a direction I should consider.

And, no, I don't expect to be able to handle this thing like a professional after 4 months but I pretty persistent and like to analyze how to make it sound better.

Thanks for the input so far.

Mark, nothing wrong with your question, but Donny is pointing you in the right direction. A good amp and proper reverb and delay is important for sure. Also get the tabs on a song and look at the string groups used. Otherwise technique is the best option. Most of the greats sounded fantastic even using a variety of amps. A Nashville 112 or 400 is hard to beat.

Mark Epstein wrote:...I still think there's a bit of a magic bullet when I look at the number of pedals/effects that good steel players use and am trying to get an idea if that is a direction I should consider.

Historically, many top pedal steel players emerged from a 5-string banjo background. You already have a leg up on many beginning steel players due to your fully developed right hand technique and your facility with fingerpicks.

I would suggest, as a relative newby to the instrument, that you leave all electronic effects (aside from a volume pedal) out of the equation, at least at first. Concentrate on getting your sound from the three basic components -- instrument, volume pedal, and amp. Remember to set your amp volume much hotter than you would if you were playing an instrument straight through without a VP. Good VP technique is essential to achieving a good, big, fat sound. Setting the overall amp volume with the VP approximately at the centerpoint of its range of travel is a good starting point.

Consider pedals and effects not as an essential panacea to achieving a good sound, but rather as a seasoning to a sound that's good already. Compare it to an excellent cut of beef vs a crappy steak -- a prime cut will be great straight off the grill, and possibly improved with a dash of salt and pepper, but no amount of seasoning will turn a crappy steak into USDA prime.

There is really nothing wrong with an original 1965 Fender Deluxe Reverb for pedal steel if you keep the volume low, as in practice levels, provided you have it set up to give a clean sound with good tubes, proper biasing (not too hot but not ice-picky cold, I usually go around 21-22ma/tube), good electrolytic capacitors and other components checked to make sure they're in-spec, and a good speaker.

If it has the original Jensen C12R/Q or Oxford speaker, or any other relatively low-headroom speaker, you will tend to run out of headroom pretty fast, and may not get the level of bass you want. In this case, once you have verified that all the other electronic issues are solid, one option would be to put in a high-eficiency, high-headroom speaker. I personally prefer a JBL D-120F, JBL K-120, EVM-12L, EV SRO "coffeecan" speaker, or something alog those lines, with my favorite being the D-120F for pedal steel. One can also try something like a Telonics Neo 12" speaker (I think they make one at 8 Ohms). I got a few of forum member TC Furlong's 8 Ohm Neo speakers a while back - they're great if you can find one. Pretty sure those latter two are made by Eminence to their specs.

There are lots of other effects one can use, but guitar, volume pedal, delay, and reverb on the amp should present no limitations to getting a "fat" sound out of that amp if it's in good shape, provided that you don't try to push high sound levels out of it. Otherwise, it just takes lots and lots of practice time.

If you really want a bigger, fatter sound at higher volume than that, I'd go for something like a Peavey Session 400 or Nashville 400 - the latter is probably the "most classic and well-used" of all the pedal steel amps, but I have to say I prefer the Session 400. Just sounds more like a Twin Reverb on steroids to me. And there is also the LTD 400, which is the same guts as the Session 400 in a smaller cabinet. Any of these can generally be had in the $300-400 range. Or a Twin Reverb - silverface examples in good shape can also be had fairly reasonably.

That Session 500 looks like a reasonable deal. I have one, and I personally don't care for it, and I'd be happy to move it down the road for $200 if anybody around here wanted one. But they're too heavy to ship - over 90 pounds seems to be the consensus - so I think they're pretty hard to sell. Now, some people love 'em - so if you can tolerate the weight, it might be worth trying if you don't mind possibly getting stuck with it for a while.

Forum member chris ivey (rip) stated something to the effect, paraphrasing, "If you can't get a good sound out of a good steel into a volume pedal into (something like) a Nashville 400, the problem is not in the amp." I totally agree, and would honestly extend that to pretty much any solidly set up and fairly clean amp, from the medium-to-large 1x12" & 2x12" Fenders to any of the basic Peavey pedal steel amps (Session/LTD 400, Nashville 400/1000 or even the smaller Nashville 112). Any of these should be fine for learning/practicing and the lower power ones can even work on the bandstand if the stage volume isn't real loud. If I'm stuck in a loud situation, it's generally the Twin Reverb or Session 400.

Another option is something like the Quilter. The Steelaire is good; I have a Tone Block 201 (200 Watt RMS) head into a small cab with a Telonics Neo or one of those Furlongs. The newest version is the 202, which I'm sure is great - I really like the 201, which I got for a song when they were blowing them out in favor of the 202.

Steve Lipsey wrote:Best advice I got came from Dave Grafe: "Pick like you mean it"
Often newbies will hold back...

Similar to the advice given to me by Bryan Adams: "Pick like you're mad at it"

Donny Hinson wrote:...keep in mind...it's not a short trip!

words of wisdom

This is such great advice - thanks. It's hard not to get frustrated but, in these times, what else am I going to do?

The PSG is the most under appreciated instrument on the planet, IMHO.

Mark, despite all the advice above, I'm going to accept your invitation to describe my setup, as it evolved.

When I started playing I bought a 1990s solid state Fender 112. Not a great amp, but clean and loud. Then I found another one the same going cheap so I went stereo!
Not long afterwards I invested in a Hilton pedal which greatly improved the quality when I was recording at home.

Then I found myself playing with loud bands where the Fenders were getting into dirty territory when I tried to compete. Luckily a second-hand Telonics rack system came up. It was expensive but I can stay clean and make myself heard over anything I've encountered since. It has a pair of 15" speakers and I keep one behind me and put the second one on the other side of the stage so all the band can hear me and the audience gets a nice stereo spread. (I have a fun distort box for if I do want to sound dirty).

I like the hi-fi approach of trying to make a sound I like with the instrument and preamp and then amplifying it. But I don't play classic country. For that the amplifier can easily be part of the sound, as discussed by other contributors.

Above all, work on your right hand, otherwise nothing else helps much. I am using finger picks for the first time in my life, having played bass before. I'm not sure that previous experience is much help as on PSG your hand is coming at a different angle from guitar or banjo.

Where you position your right hand on the fretboard affects tone significantly. One of the biggest mistakes I see is people playing with their right hand close to the bridge. This is great for a chicken pickin or even a Mooney sound if these are the sounds you are looking for. To me it just sounds thin and clangy. I suggest you move your right hand up and down the neck listening for the sweet spot. Mine is around the 19th fret. I do move around some depending on the song, but that is my home base.

I think it's fair to say that on any stringed instrument the point at which you attack the string is part of the technique and varies according to circumstances. The right hand generally retreats as the left advances and that sweet spot moves nearer to the bridge.

Orchestral scores often have indications for the strings to play closer to the bridge or further down the fingerboard, in circumstances where they wouldn't do it automatically.