New to the forum, long time guitar player looking to get started playing pedal steel. I’ve been casually looking for my first instrument and came across a used SD-10. Unfortunately I’d be buying remote/unseen and the owner doesn’t know much about it as he took on trade with intents to learn but never did. He thought it was a 1970 MSA but it doesn’t have any identifying marks. I can tell it’s a 3x5 but otherwise cannot tell much about it. Can anyone help me identify this guitar?
The legs, the pedals, the fret board, keyhead all look like the Cougar I had. Decent mid grade pedal steels built by the late Freeman Cowgar in the 80's and 90's.
That's what it looks like to me. I guess it could have been built by someone else using some Cougar parts.
Not an MSA though.
Last edited by Jerry Overstreet on 29 Mar 2020 8:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Jerry Overstreet wrote:Yeah Jesse. Definitely not an MSA. I'd bet money it's a Cougar. Care to say what the asking price is?
Yeah doing a little searching I agree with it being a Cougar. Asking $650 before shipping and PayPal fees. I don’t think it’s a bad deal to get me started. I just don’t know what I’ll be in for with getting it setup and what resale would be like if I ever decided to sell.
not an msa for sure. i had a cougar and i believe thats what it is. not a bad deal. resale?? according to what the economy does over the next few months.
its a maple guitar covered with mica or something else. its fine to get started on, but i dont know about resale for any more than that. you should be able to get your money back out of it.
look and see if it has any nylon gears on any of the knee levers. my cougar did. it was a 6 string slidemaster. i wish i had that guitar back. it was cute and a lot of fun.
I'd say that's more than a fair price. If you ever wanted to sell it, you should have no problem at all getting your money back.
I paid more than that for my 6 stringer in the pics.
These were all pull guitars and set-ups are straight forward. From the pics, looks pretty much like a standard Emmons set-up. Hard to tell exactly what the levers are doing, but appears to have enough hardware that you can change things if need be.
Probably someone in your area can help with mechanics if need be, but you can probably handle anything yourself with a little info and forum help.
Good Luck and welcome to the steel guitar madness.
Thanks I appreciate the information. I’m certain I could work the mechanics out with a little research like you mentioned. Are these pretty reliable guitars? Does anyone carry parts for them still since the builder has passed?
Jesse Hardy wrote:Thanks I appreciate the information. I’m certain I could work the mechanics out with a little research like you mentioned. Are these pretty reliable guitars? Does anyone carry parts for them still since the builder has passed?
i was not able to find any parts for mine. freeman made a good economical product that worked and was affordable. i met him at a steel show once. he had already passed on when i came across the cougar i had. should be easy to work on and adjust. just start playing. dont worry about all the mechanics aside from cleaning lubing and tuning.
I have a July 9, 1974 S10 MSA Serial No. 1C2921 look nothing like this one. Mine has 12 key stepped key head, 2 key spots left blank.. A narrower pad area. Round Cross rods that goes rail to rail, Aluminum back rail with plate to remove and install cross rods. Double sided Bell cranks with brass rod anchors. I would do a lot of checking before going for this guitar.
For 650, you can't go wrong. Looks like a Cougar to me. You won't find another all-pull guitar with 5 knee levers for anywhere near that price. I would not worry about parts, it looks to be in good condition.
However, it still might need some work to get into proper playing condition. I have bought a lot of used steel guitars over the years, everyone of them needed some adjustments. Especially if you are buying from someone that is not an experienced player. I'd suggest that you find someone locally that may be able to help with this.
I knew Freeman Cowgar, he had a music store in Lincoln Park Michigan, he was a dealer for MSA I bought a D10 Classic MSA from him in 1974, I think he kind of copied the action on the changer.He was a real nice guy I lost contact with him about 1980. I still have that guitar. JG.
It's a Cougar, no doubt. I don't know why you would need parts for it anyway. It appears to have everything there that anyone would need. Some parts, like the bell cranks where the pull rods attach, can be substituted with other makers' parts. Those are 3/8 cross shafts.
I wouldn't worry about parts, just start playing. The all pull system is easy enough to tune and adjust.
Value wise, I don't see how you could find anything near this quality instrument for that price. It appears to have all the changes you will ever need and it's a much better guitar than the entry level models of Maverick, Red Baron, etc.
It would be something I would consider buying myself if I weren't a D10 player.
Jerry Overstreet wrote:It's a Cougar, no doubt. I don't know why you would need parts for it anyway. It appears to have everything there that anyone would need. Some parts, like the bell cranks where the pull rods attach, can be substituted with other makers' parts. Those are 3/8 cross shafts.
I wouldn't worry about parts, just start playing. The all pull system is easy enough to tune and adjust.
Value wise, I don't see how you could find anything near this quality instrument for that price. It appears to have all the changes you will ever need and it's a much better guitar than the entry level models of Maverick, Red Baron, etc.
It would be something I would consider buying myself if I weren't a D10 player.
It certainly appears to be a pretty decent all-pull design. I do notice, however, that it's presently over-tuned. This can be verified by the fact that the pulling fingers are not precisely lined up as they would be in a properly adjusted guitar.
Donny Hinson wrote:It certainly appears to be a pretty decent all-pull design. I do notice, however, that it's presently over-tuned. This can be verified by the fact that the pulling fingers are not precisely lined up as they would be in a properly adjusted guitar.
Donny, here is another shot of the tuners the owner sent me. Should they be lined up horizontally to guitar body or vertically to each other? Sorry I’m new to this, can this be rectified with proper tuning or is it a sign of underlying issues?
Donny is referring to the picture that shows the changer from the bottom side. All the changer fingers should be evenly aligned. If you get the guitar, the first thing to do would be loosen all of the white tuning nuts located at the changer end. Then tune all the open strings with the tuning keys on the top. Then tune all the raises and lowers with the white tuning nuts. Get a chromatic tuner of some kind, it doesn't need to be expensive. Use the Jeff Newman E9th tuning chart, google it. Do that and there is a good chance that the guitar will play properly.
Correct. Overtuning is almost always user error, not a problem with the guitar itself. This guitar looks to be well designed. There are multiple leverage points in both the changer (triple raise, double lower) and the bell cranks (8 holes to choose from!). It should be able to handle any common copedent with ease.
It might just be that someone loosened the adjustable lower return springs too much trying to ease the action. Notice how those fingers not against the stop plate have screws showing more threads than the others.
Thing to do is tune it up and see how it plays before doing anything else.
Don't worry about those things. We can help you through the other issues as they come up.
The little Cougar I had was a pretty good playing guitar. I only sold it due to economic hardship. I would buy it back in a minute if I could.
