The Steel Guitar Forum

looking to replace my MSA D10 8/2 for an S10 3/4 or 4/4.So here is my question, What would you Buy and Why. Let me give you an example. Tone, comfort of playing, width between pedals, or Knee Levers. Quality of Construction, Key or Keyless. I think you get the Idea, There are so many to choose from. Used is probably what I cam afford.

MSA D10 8/2

I don't envison replacing my beautiful blonde Carter S12 any time soon.... but if I did, I would check out the keyless Williams PSG, I like the design of the changer, and owners seem to enjoy the pedal feel and tone.

I would stick with a S12, or maybe a custom S13 if available.



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Dave Wren
'96 Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; NV 112; Fender Twin Custom 15 ('65 reissue); Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com

It's a no brainer...Tone, absolutely.

WILL LET YOU KNOW WHEN I FIND OUT???

Wayne,

I've played Emmmons for the greatest part of my picking life. A year ago, I ordered an SD10. 3X5 Rains, (I've since added a Franklin pedal). There are brands our there that I have not played. I, however, have played several; and owned many, and have never heard a guitar that I thought sounded as good as my Rains. If you have an opportunity, I would suggest that you give one a try before making your decision. I never thought that I would sell my Emmons but it is gone - I just wasn't playing it. As a matter of fact. I have a new Rains that is leaving Texas today. I bought my first one before I had ever heard one. I am not suggesting that you do that, but if you have a chance give one a try.

Hope this helps and good luck.

Ol' Fred

After attending the ISGC this year and playing many guitars I too would go with the Willams. Reasons: They make the keyless, the pedal action seems the nicest of all the guitars I tried, great sound, light weight. Bill Rudolph seems like a straight up guy not the salesman type. I would go for the D12 crossover like b0b as I already play D12. My buddy Don McClellan agrees as he will be recieving a new S12 Williams in the next couple of days.
The other steel that jumped out at me was the Coop Sho-bud makeover. Wow!!!!<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Billy Wilson on 13 September 2006 at 01:41 PM.]</p></FONT>

I'm also a 12-string player and I won't own a guitar on a single body, so it's not like trying to find D-10's. I've collected the best I've played over 20-30 years and feel I have the ones that I should have kept (with one exception -- the ZumSteel I shouldn't have let get away so easily).

I play a relatively new Fessenden and vintage Emmons (Mike Cass rebuild) and Sho-Bud (John Coop rebuild) guitars. I would not hesitate to recommend any of the three. All different; none perfect but all three are easy to love. I think Jerry Fessenden builds a guitar that works as well and sounds as good or better than any made today and I also enjoy the vintage vibe of an old Bud or push-pull.

BUT . . .

Personally, I wouldn't listen much to what anyone says. Everyone has a prejudice that may or may not be real to others. Most everyone plays their favorite guitar -- DUUUUUH. Funny thing is that it can be their FAVORITE GUITAR OF ALL TIME one week and a piece of junk they can't get rid of fast enough the next week. Seen that happen too often.

YMMV, but I have no problem sitting down to a guitar and knowing whether this is the one 'for me'. It's usually pretty obvious. I tend to keep the good-uns 20 years or more.

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<small>Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

What pickups do you Williams guys like for E9 and C6 necks?
I've been thinking about getting a D12 and have been thinking about a Williams.

I have a 2005 keyless Williams D-10 lacquer finish. I have Bills standard pickups and am pleased with the sound. In fact, I am just pleased with the guitar. I like how it plays, sounds and feels.

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Emmons LeGrande II D-10, 8 & 5, Keyless Willy "400" D-10, 8 & 8 two Peavey 112's, Profex II and Hilton Pedal.

Pete, I have 710's on mine and they sound very good.

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Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night.

A Zumsteel or a Jackson?
I havent tried a Jackson but am curious.
I tried a Zumsteel many years ago and was
impressed by the ease of the pedal action.
Am currently playing on a nineties Emmons Lashley LeGrande and like it alot so I guess I'll stick with it for now. It's like the old saying "If it ain't broken, don't try to fix it".

Check out a Rains For the Money They are the Best Built Steel From top Too Bottom I Have seen.Also Great service after the sale.If you want To spend more then a new MSA Will work Just fine Again Built Well And Service after The Sale. Randy Gilliam.<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Randy Gilliam on 17 September 2006 at 02:39 PM.]</p></FONT>

I tried dozens of guitars with varid (mostly ambivalent) results until I got my GFI without even playing it first. Tone, power, feel, weight, build quality, smoothness....it's all there. The fine details, fit and finish are just astonishing.

Worth consideration.

If I had the bucks, I'd get ALL OF THEM.

I'm only being partially facietious. EVERY guitar made today is a winner. You can't go wrong no natter what you buy.

With that in mind, it comes down to a matter of persoinal preference. They're all good, but they are are all somewhat different.

Do you care about weight? Do you want interchangable pickups? Are you in love with the old Sho-Bud sound? The P/P sound? Do you prefer wood over mica or vice versa?

There are lots of options to choose from. I suggest that you either attend a big show like St Louis or Dallas, or visit some steel guitar shop, where you can try out differemt brands and see which you like the most.

As my experience with Sho~Bud grows, so does my appreciation and respect for the distinct sound and feel of these fine old pedal steels. A Sho~Bud that's mechanically sound cannot be beat, IMO. If I was going to buy again, it would be one of the first Pro II's or LDG's. My Baldwin 'Bud with the barrel tuners smokes all the guitars I've owned, and I regret trading my Pro 1 every day since it's been gone. Some are better than others, but the right Sho~Bud is tone heaven.

If you're looking for one of the newer guitars, I tried a lot of them in St. Louis. All of them were well-constructed, most were lightweight, and they all pretty much sounded the same to me. The newer guitars won't give you any trouble like a 'Bud might, but what's the fun in that?

Emmons, cause they are the best.

Wayne Baker

ZumSteel cause it's the best !

I played a Rains in Montgomery Al. the playability was good but thru a WEb and the way it was set up I did not like the TONE, or sound.

ernie

Somebody say Mullen, OK? I'm getting an '03 RP in a couple weeks so I want to hear that it's the best one out there.

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Marrs D-10, Webb 6-14E, Peavey NV112, Hilton volume.

I SHOULD HAVE REALIZED WHEN I PUT THIS QUESTION TO THE FOURM THAT THE FOLLOWING WOULD HAPPEN. EVERY ONE AGREED TO DISAGREE, FOR STEELER'S PLAY WHAT THEY LIKE AND ARE LOYAL AND OPINIONATED, BUT STILL RESPECTIVE OF OTHERS. SO WHICH GUITAR IS THE BEST TO PURCHASES, IF YOU COULD ONLY HAVE ONE, [AND THAT IS ALL I CAN AFFORD] MSA, GFI, RAINS, ZUMSTEEL, EMMONS, WILLIAMS, MULLEN, SHO-BUD AND CARTER. THAT IS THE CONSENSUS OF WHAT I GOT FROM YOU ANSWERS. THERE WERE TWO OF YOU THAT I COULD PICTURE STANDING FACE TO FACE IN A FRENDLY SORT OF WAY SAYING THE FOLLOWING: [WAYNE BAKER] "EMMONS IS THE BEST" AND [CROWBARE SCHMIDT] SAYING "NO ZUMSTEEL IS THE BEST" AND THEY ARE RIGHT, FOR THEM. THEN THERE WAS GARY STEEL,WHO HAS YET TO MAKE UP HIS MIND FOR HE SAID "ILL LET YOU KNOW WHEN I FIND OUT" SO WHAT DID I DO I GOT TWO PRIVATE EMAILS SUGGESTING I CHECK OUT "DESERT ROSE" MADE BY CHUCK BACK. SO I DID AND NOW WE CAN ADD DESERT ROSE TO THE ABOVE LIST. THANKS FELLOW PSG PLAYERS. YOU HAVE BEEN HELPFULL, ENLIGHTNING, AND ALSO ENTERTAINING, AND I HAVE APPRECIATED YOUR IMPUT.

MSA D10 8/2 - still for sale
DESERT ROSE S10 3/4 on it's way

Might as well admit it...there are lots of great guitars out there...And all of the "greats" have played this one and that one and they sound good on whatever they are playing. So, its not a matter of the best guitar (like the best car, the best electric shaver, the best..whatever). Seems just to be a personal preference...When I started on pedal steel, I thought Marlin was the best,then moved to Emmons...I have played Carter, Zum, etc., (and they play great), but certainly no reason for me to move from Emmons. We are lucky such great instruments are available today, and such good builders. I think it is more important to spend time on learning how to play as opposed to spending so much energy trying to find something that will play for you.

Let me make a suggestion, try out several different brands, when you find one that suits you , you will know it immediately, it will feel right, set right, and sound right, and play easy. All the name brands are good now days, but I prefer the Zum and GFI they fit me better and sound better to me than any I tried.

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GFI Ultra,S10 w/pad,,,Nashville 112,,,Nashville 400,,,Hilton,,,RV-3

Franklin guitars. These instruments not only sport the most efficeint mechanical design, they also help develop the players technique. I believe this because when a note is played it is solid, clear, and without overtones. You cannot fake a well developed technique on a Franklin, which is a good thing. Everyone should continue evolving as players, and these guitars will not give any false notions. But like my dad always said "Different Strokes for Different Folks"

I ve owned at least 12-Sho-Buds and I've owned 3-Franklins and I now own my 2nd. Derby! I liked all of them!

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“Big John”
a.k.a. {Keoni Nui}
Current Equipment

I have to say, I would at least try an Emmons push-pull before you buy anything else. I continue to be amazed at how pretty an old push pull guitar sounds, and although it might take a little more effort to play, and carry around, for me it's worth it. The sound just can't be beat. Cuts through even the loudest noisy band, and I play with a few that fit that description. Also, an old Emmons sounds really cool distorted, like a lap steel, instead of that weird distorted psg sound. I also have a Williams D-10, and it plays super easy and is lightweight, but I have grown to prefer the tone and feel of a push-pull.