Tuning?

Jerry Delpaz · Post by **Jerry Delpaz** » 11 Sep 2006 6:34 pm

I am a beginner.I have a steel guitar,but I don't know how to tune it,and am having a problem trying to figure it out.I am goint to buy a korg ca30 tuner wed,and I need some help on the best way to learn to tune a 10 string 3pedal 3knee lever steel.Thanks as always. Jerry

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 11 Sep 2006 6:39 pm

This always opens a p*ss fest... just tune it where it sounds good to you with the other guys you're playing with. One guy will tell you to tune flat, but it works for him, one guy will tell you to tune sharp, but it works for him... start at 440, and go from there.

------------------
Mikey D...

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 11 Sep 2006 7:02 pm

Tune it as indicated on this page.

The third string is the highest string. The first and second strings are both lower in pitch than the 3rd string. I know it sounds wacky, but there's a good reason for it. Trust us on that.

------------------
<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b2005.gif" width="78 height="78">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog 
<div style="display:none">

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 11 Sep 2006 7:30 pm

b0b was, as usual, more helpful than I. I was thinking beyond the basic tuning configuration.

Way to go, b0b!

------------------
Mikey D...

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 11 Sep 2006 7:44 pm

The different "sharp or flat" things are set up by the people you play for as you get more famous. I'm just guessing..

Til then, tuning like Buddy Emmons, right exactly to what the tuner says is in tune should be good enough.

That's what I'm gonna do until Shania calls..

EJL

Twayn Williams · Post by **Twayn Williams** » 11 Sep 2006 8:58 pm

You might find this useful:

http://www.jeffran.com/tuning.php

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 11 Sep 2006 9:20 pm

Yeah, or a beginner might find it a little confusing...

EJL

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 12 Sep 2006 8:03 am

If the stings are not new, you can purchase a set of Jagwire strings from b0b here on the forum. Keeping new strings on is important, because the adjusmtents for the pedals will need to be changed if the strings are allowed to get too old.

Tune the open strings first, then "tune" the pedals using the hex shaped nuts on the end of the guitar. Moving a pedal while looking at the hex nuts will allow you to know which ones to adjust for that 1 pedal (or knee lever).

Have fun!

------------------
Dave Wren
'96 Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; NV 112; Fender Twin Custom 15 ('65 reissue); Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 12 Sep 2006 11:41 am

This question comes up regularly. It is usually answered incompletely and with various, sometimes conflicting, suggestions from whoever happens to be on the Forum and feels like replying. Below I give a complete, simple method for tuning 10-string E9 by ear after taking a single reference pitch. This is usually what a beginner is asking for. At the end is some elementary discussion of the alternate tuning methods of Just Intonation and Equal Temper, cabinet drop, and bar pressure tuning issues. If anyone sees any mistakes, please let me know. I'm going to try to save this and repost whenever the question comes up.

TUNING A 10-STRING E9 PEDAL STEEL GUITAR

The simplest method, and the traditional method, is to tune all the strings to open chords by ear. All you need is a single E note from a keyboard, harmonica or tuner. All the other strings and stops will be tuned to that reference. The strings are numbered from high to low. On an all-pull guitar (most modern pedal steels), the strings are tuned at the keyhead, and the pedal and knee lever stops are tuned with nylon hex screws at the changer end. Some older guitars (push/pulls) and student models are the opposite (Pedal and knee stops are tuned at the keyhead, and open strings are tuned by screws at the changer). Once a string or stop is tuned, do not change it during subsequent tuning steps. If you suspect a string has gone out of tune, go back to how it was originally tuned to check it. This will keep you from chasing your tail.

Tuning the open strings (at the keyhead):
1. Take an E note from a tuner or other source, and tune the 4th and 8th strings to E. In all the procedures to follow, do not retune these strings.
2. Tune the 3rd, 5th, 6th and 10th strings to a nice sounding E major chord, with the 4th and 8th strings as the roots. The 3rd and 6th strings are the third of the chord (G#); and the 5th and 10th strings are the fifths (B).
3. Use the open 5th string as the root of a B chord, and tune the 2nd string as the third of the chord (D#), and the 1st string as the fifth (F#). The 7th string is tuned as the fifth below the B root.
4. Use the 10th string as the root of a Bm chord, and the 7th string (F#) as the fifth, and tune the 9th string as the minor third (D) of that chord.

This may seem complicated when written out step-by-step; but in practice it is a simple matter of hitting three open chords and quickly tweaking the strings so they sound good. The trick is to know which are the reference strings for each chord (that remain unchanged), and which are the strings to tweak.

Tuning the pedal and knee stops (hex screws at changer) - for “Emmons” setup, the pedals are labeled A, B, C, left to right; for “Day” setup they are labeled from right to left:
1. Press the A and B pedals. This should change the E chord (I) to an A chord (IV). The open E strings (4 and

are not changed by the pedals, and these are the fifths of the A chord. Tune the pedal stops as roots (A) and thirds (C#) to these fifths. The roots will be the stops on strings 3 and 6; the thirds will be the stops on strings 5 and 10. Do not retune the reference Es on strings 4 and 8 while tuning the pedal stops; rather tune the pedal stops to those Es.
2. Press the B and C pedals. This should give an F#m chord (IIm). Tune the C pedal stop on the 4th string (F#) as the root an octave above the F# on the open 7th string. Tune the C pedal stop on the 5th string as the 5th (C#) of the F#m chord. Do not change the tuning of the 6th and 10th strings or the B pedal stops. You may need to tweak the 7th string slightly so that it is in tune with the B pedal stops for this chord.
3. If you have a lever that raises the Es to F (called the F lever) on strings 4 and 8, activate that lever and the A pedal. This should give a C# major chord. Tune the F lever stops on strings 4 and 8 as the thirds of this chord, with the 4th and 8th strings being the thirds (F), and the 3rd and 6th strings being the fifths (G#). Do not change anything but the F lever stops.
4. If you have a lever that lowers the Es to Eb (The E-lower lever), this should give a G#m chord (IIIm). Tune the stops on strings 4 and 8 as the fifths of the chord, with the roots (G#) on strings 3 and 6, and the minor thirds (B) on strings 5 and 10. Do not change the strings or stops on anything but the E-lower lever stops.
5. If you have a lever that lowers the 2nd string D# to D, tune that stop as an octave to the D on string 9. Or tune it as the minor 3rd of the Bm chord with the B on string 5 as the root, and the F# on string 1 as the fifth.
6. If you have a lever that lowers the 5th string B to Bb, tune that as the minor third (C) of the Am chord made with the A and B pedals and this lever.
7. Other pedals and levers are not standard, but should usually be tuned by the principles above, as part of the chord they are most commonly used for.

Usually only the open strings will need to be tuned at the keyhead. The pedal and knee lever stops will hold for weeks, or until the strings get old. The above method of tuning will sound pleasant for all the most commonly used chords. If you tune carefully by ear as above, and check each string and stop with a chromatic meter, you will see that almost nothing but the Es are straight up 440 by the meter. You have tuned to the natural harmonies called Just Intonation (JI). It is helpful to write down the exact offsets from straight up for each string and stop. This can be used to tune to a chromatic meter when you are unable to hear while tuning.

If you attempt to tune all the strings and stops straight up to a meter, most people will find that the chords sound harsh. The meter gives the Equal Temper (ET) tuning that is a compromise designed for fixed pitch instruments such as pianos. Some players feel ET tuning allows them to more easily play in tune with keyboards and other guitars tuned straight up ET. Many other players find JI more pleasing, and have no problems playing with ET tuned instruments. Top pros use both methods, or some compromise between the two methods. Technically, JI has been traditionally considered the “correct” or “true” pitch. Instruments without fixed pitches, which are played to the ear (orchestral strings, horns, vocals) use traditional JI intonation. But ET is considered acceptable for fixed-pitch instruments such as keyboards and harps. The fixed frets of guitars are placed according to ET. Some guitarists tune the strings strictly by ET; but many tweak the strings slightly to get sweeter sounding chords. The tweaking method works best for simple chords and progressions, and requires re-tweaking for each new key. Tuning everything ET is more versatile for complicated chords and progressions, and for key modulations, but the chords will not sound as sweet. Neither JI nor ET is “incorrect” for guitar, including pedal steel. It is a matter of taste and the type of music being played. As a practical matter, the harsh compromises of ET are more noticeable when playing alone, but not so noticeable when playing with others.

Cabinet drop:
The mechanics of pressing down the pedals may cause some unaffected strings to detune slightly and go flat. This phenomenon is called cabinet drop, and can result both from bowing of the guitar body under pressure, and mechanical slack in the hardware. When strings are lowered, there can be “cabinet rise.” Tuning by ear as described above mostly compensates for cabinet drop. However, when playing open at the nut, the A chord with the pedals down may be slightly flat. Some players tune the pedal-down As on strings 3 and 5 as the reference pitch rather than the unpedaled Es on strings 4 and 8. This gives an A chord at straight up 440, but the E chord may be slightly sharp. A compromise is to split the difference (according to a meter), and tune the open Es slightly sharp and let the pedal-down As be slightly flat. For these main chords, cabinet drop only affects the pitch at the nut, and bar-ear coordination will automatically compensate when using the bar up the neck. For some complicated chords, cabinet drop can cause out of tune chords for some combinations of open strings and stops. For some of these problems a mechanical fix is available in the way of extra pulls that change certain strings by a fraction of a tone. JI and ET each have their own problems and solutions for cabinet drop, and neither is perfect.

Bar pressure:
With careful tuning you may notice that strings that are in perfect tune open at the nut, do not play in tune with the bar up the neck. This is especially noticeable on the lowest strings of C6, extended E9, or 12-string Universal tunings. This is caused by bar pressure, and the remedy is to do a rough tuning of the strings open at the nut, and then to fine tune with the bar near the center of the normal playing region, say at the C or 8th fret. Remember to leave the reference Es unchanged, and to tune everything to them. It may also be desirable to do fine tuning of the pedal and knee stops with the bar up the neck.
[This message was edited by David Doggett on 12 September 2006 at 12:45 PM.]

graham rodger · Post by **graham rodger** » 12 Sep 2006 3:17 pm

what bob said?,i also am a relative beginner...got the hang of strings 10 to 3...chords n stuff...why are the top 4 strings tuned to the so called banjo tuning?for speed of high licks?a little confusing...anyone got a tab example that kinda demonstrates this...?anyone care to exemplify?

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 12 Sep 2006 4:14 pm

Putting the "chromatic" strings out of sequence serves two purposes:
<ol>[*]It makes chords and arpeggios on strings 3 through 6 easier to play without error.

[*]It makes it easier to play fast scale-based passages across the strings by alternating thumb and finger. [/list]

------------------
<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b2005.gif" width="78 height="78">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog 
<div style="display:none">[This message was edited by b0b on 12 September 2006 at 05:14 PM.]

Cliff Kane · Post by **Cliff Kane** » 12 Sep 2006 4:52 pm

Thank you David! Well done! That's about the most comprehensive explanaton and instructions I've seen for JI. It's a confusing subject, but your post clears up a lot.

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 12 Sep 2006 5:03 pm

David D, the easiest way to tune as a beginner is not by ear, it is straight up 440 with a tuner. It works for many players. Your comment that most people find the chords "harsh" is unfounded, and I believe untrue. "Many tweak the strings slightly to get sweeter sounding chords" is due more to intonation problems related to saddle adjustment than ET or JI. None of my guitar buds mess with JI tweaks, and I have many great players as friends. J.D. wants the simplest easiest way..get a tuner, 440. Change it later if you want. JP

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 12 Sep 2006 7:02 pm

Jim, obviously you have a point. Nothing could be simpler than buying a chromatic tuner and tuning everything straight up by the meter. But that is so simple and obvious that I assume anyone who comes on here and asks about tuning is after something more. In fact, Jerry's initial post implied that he does not have a chromatic tuner. In that case what does one do? Well, you do what steelers did for 40 or 50 years, before there were inexpensive portable chromatic tuners available from any music store. I remember about 40 years ago, when I was learning sax in high school band, the band director wheeled out a cart with an expensive, heavy, chromatic tuner the size of a big amp head, and had me play sustained notes to make the wheels stop, as an aide to learning intonation control. Well, for most of the history of steel guitar, ordinary players did not have such contraptions. Seems like it was only in the past couple of decades that affordable pocket-size chromatic tuners became available to steelers. What did everyone do before that? They took an E from somewhere and they tuned the whole copedant by ear. It's not that complicated, and can be quicker than tuning slavishly by sight to a meter. Every steeler should know how to tune by ear. As a bonus, this simple tuning method lets the novice (provided he has a decent enough ear to tune by ear) hear how the natural JI tuning system sounds. Once he has heard this, he can then take a chromatic tuner and blindly tune everything straight up ET by the meter, and hear the difference. Now he has a modicum of self-education and direct knowledge of the two prevailing tuning systems. He can then knowledgeably choose which method to use; or can work his own compromise between the two.

Unfortunately there are many younger guitarists and steelers who grew up in the era of chromatic ET tuners, and who are unaware of the beauty of natural JI intonation. Any experienced musician who has learned to play a non-fixed pitch instrument by ear (orchestral strings, horns, and vocalists) will recognize the compromised intonation of strict ET as less pleasing - I called it harsh - call it what you want. The clash between the JI of most of the instruments in a symphony orchestra and the ET of pianos and organs has been recognized for hundreds of years. The compromise of ET was worked out centuries ago, so that pianos could play all chords in all keys. They are all slightly but acceptably out of tune; whereas, a piano tuned to JI would be able to play a few chords in a single key with perfect intonation, and other chords and keys would be grossly out of tune. This is not required for orchestral strings. They tune their fixed pitch open strings in fifths or fourths, which are essentially the same for JI or ET, but play most notes by ear to JI. Horns play all notes by ear to JI, as do vocalists. This is a well known conflict in classical music. Because of this conflict, pianos and organs were phased out of symphony orchestras long ago. Harps are tolerated because they have so little volume and sustain that their ET overtones don't noticeably clash with the JI of the rest of the orchestra. Pianos are rolled out on stage for piano concertos, and everyone makes the best of the situation. But they are not tolerated as a routine orchestral instrument. Of course in popular music, pianos, strings and horns play together all the time, and most of us don’t hear a problem. Knowledgeable, experienced musicians recognize the problem, but acceptable compromise is possible. The same is true for a JI tuned steel playing with ET tuned keyboards and guitars.

Do all guitarists tune straight up ET by the meter? In your experience, yes; in mine, no. Guitarists will tune to the meter, and some of them will leave it there. But after they put the meter away, many of them will play a chord and tweak. When the next song is in a different key, they will play the key chord and re-tweak. This works fine for simple chords and progressions, and sounds sweeter. This is done not only by amateurs, but by seasoned pros in the studio. A guitar is not a piano. It can be retuned between songs. For complicated chords, progressions, and key modulations within songs, ET works better. Knowledgeable, experienced musicians know the advantages and disadvantages of each system, and use them accordingly.

Pedal steel can use JI in more situations than regular guitar, because with the bar we have movable JI chords; and JI intonation can be maintained over all keys, at least for the most commonly used chords in the simple progressions of country, blues and rock. For complicated chords and progressions in jazz, some steelers find that ET works better.

I have no problem with ET when it is required. I started on piano and organ, and would not want a keyboard tuned any way but ET. On sax I play it as I hear it, which is JI most of the time. On guitar I use both, depending on the situation. On steel I use something between JI and ET, but much closer to JI. That’s a personal preference which works for the music I play. I have heard other steelers use ET with acceptable results. I enjoy playing with musicians on many instruments who knowingly or not use both methods. I am neutral on the subject. The only thing that bothers me is modern self-trained or poorly educated guitarists and steelers who bought an ET chromatic meter in a store, have no knowledge of the long history of tuning in music, and think their compromised ET meter is the one true tuning, and have no first-hand knowledge of the other tuning systems (there are many besides ET and JI). I have no intention of dictating how anyone tunes. My only advice is to experience both tuning systems, and make your own choice.

My purpose in the above post was to show novices how to tune an E9 pedal steel by ear using a single reference pitch, in the absence of a chromatic tuner. Many steelers (including most top pros) tune by ear, even if they have a chromatic tuner available, because they prefer it that way. And believe it or not, some studio producers and engineers demand tuning by ear or JI for steel, and do not allow straight up ET tuning. On the other hand, if you have a chromatic meter available, and like the way ET sounds, that has become an acceptable modern standard for many guitarists and steelers.

Incidentally, poor saddle and setup on a guitar makes intonation problems worse for ET or JI, but has nothing to do with the basic conflict between the two. This is the myth of guitarists who tweak without understanding why. The most perfectly setup guitar will sound slightly out of tune with ET to a well-trained ear. The same guitar tweaked closer to JI will sound sweeter on some of the basic chords in a single key, and will sound grossly out of tune on other chords in other keys. That is simply the nature of ET and JI. There is no perfect setup on a guitar that will totally avoid the problem.

------------------
Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 12 September 2006 at 08:29 PM.]

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 12 Sep 2006 8:09 pm

Jerry.

The Preceding Post by My good friend Mr Doggett, if you do get all the way through it, is probably the best advertisement for simple digital tuners.

Some of these guys' explanations go over the border of absurdity. By a few thousand words..

There's a World Class Collection of them hidden here on the Forum, but we can't let you access them until you've learned how to play.

Your head would explode, and you'd go out and buy every Shania Twain CD and actually listen to it.. "Let's go girls.. Whoo!..."

Most tuning after the basic changes and strings is a process of approximation done in the playing. As oppposed to the typing..

EJL

DD: You're getting closer to your Masterpiece.. You better start Copyrighting them.

Poorly intoned "guitars"? I'd say especially if they have unadjustable bridgepoles like all pedal steels..

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 12 Sep 2006 9:19 pm

Eric, if I could figure a way to get paid for it, I'd write all this stuff up and pass it around to you and other Forumites to add comments as a reality check and for comic relief. After all, as bad as I write, it's better than I play.

And I'm not gettin' paid much for either one these days.

But either way, it's loads of fun.

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 13 Sep 2006 2:31 am

David, as always you are well informed and intentioned, and I am aware of JI and ET and the theories and problems related to tuning, but if I were a beginner and had to figure out what your post meant as far as tuning a steel goes, I might give it up right there! Get a tuner, tune it in 3 minutes, you're done. Tweak it later, if you must. I stand by my experience with guitar players, no one I know tweaks for different keys, this is real life bars and casuals, you may have different experiences, that's cool by me. JP

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 13 Sep 2006 11:09 am

Jim, I didn't really mean to get into the JI/ET debate. I just threw the JI/ET discussion in to give a beginner some awareness that tuning by ear and tuning to a meter straight up will give you slightly different tunings, both of which are completely legitimate and usable.

Tuning your instrument by ear to a single reference pitch is so basic, I can't believe anyone would discourage a newbie from learning this very simple procedure. I would think this would be the very first thing learned in the very first lesson from any competent instructor. For the strings, you only need to know 3 chords. One is the root E chord the instrument is tuned to - duh. The B chord takes care of the three "chromatic strings," and is also a basic chord of the tuning - duh again. The final chord tunes the 7th.

It may look complicated in writing, but if you actually try it, you will see how simple and quick it is. Many of us tuned this way for decades, before we got chromatic tuners. I can touch up my strings by ear quicker than with a tuner. It just takes a little common sense to know which strings to use as the references, so you don't retune them and start going around in a circle. Most of us figured this out for ourselves when we first started playing. I just thought I would spell it out in steps, to save a beginner some time.

Yeah, it gets a little more complicated with the pedals and lever stops. But you don't have to do those every time you sit down to play. And hey - it's a pedal steel guitar. Why shouldn't a beginner know how to tune all his stops the traditional way by ear? What happens if the batteries in your meter go down?

Tuning your chosen instrument by ear just seems like such a basic rudimentary skill, and such an essential survival skill. Using a chromatic tuner is convenient, but also a crutch. And it's not necessarily so much simpler. You still have to know what note each string and stop is supposed to be. Frankly, I learned to strike the proper chords and tune them before I knew what notes I was playing. I still have to think it through to say exactly what note each string and stop is. But everyone knows how a simple major or minor chord is supposed to sound. It is really not as complicated as the meter dictators would have us believe. I can demonstrate this to a student in 5 minutes, and he would be set for life.

Chromatic meters are fine. I have one, and use it when it is too noisy to hear, or I have to tune silently. But it just seems common sense that every player should also know how to tune by ear. I just don't understand the resistance to teaching and learning this simple essential skill.

As far as guitar players tweaking after tuning to a meter, I think you are right that more and more young players tune exactly to a meter, and don't touch up beyond that. So I am not surprised that is all you see. I think this is fine if one understands what ET is and knows that is what he wants. It is not so fine if one ignorantly believes the meters' ET is the one and only tuning system, and has no knowledge of the older, more natural JI system by which many instruments are played. I see top pros doing it both ways (as well as the advanced amateurs and semipros I play with). Some use a meter and don't tweak toward JI. I'm sure they are committed to ET and know exactly what they are doing and why. But in concerts and A-team studio sessions (according to Paul Franklin), many top performers and studio musicians touch up by ear. They also know exactly what they are doing and why.

We haven't really gotten into what the actual differences are between ET and JI, and why they exist. This is not really the thread for that. Any beginner who is interested can do a little searching on the internet and find a wealth of information. But the simplest way to understand the problem is to tune both ways and listen to the difference. Any beginner can tune a chord by ear, and then tune striaght up with meter and compare the difference. A demonstration is worth a thousand words.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 13 September 2006 at 12:36 PM.]

Cliff Kane · Post by **Cliff Kane** » 13 Sep 2006 11:22 am

I agree. One of the first strides I made when I first started playing guitar was when I understood the concept of beats (cycles) and was able to hear them when tuning. It's good ear training, and I think it's a logical step toward being able to hear intervals. I don't think it's that complicated, and being connected like that seems to add relavance, where as looking at LEDs seems a little abstract and removed from what is physically and sonically happening. By all means, keep it simple if you're new to playing instruments, and perhaps just looking at a tuner is simpler than listening to beats, but this is not advanced theory.[This message was edited by Cliff Kane on 13 September 2006 at 12:25 PM.]

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 13 Sep 2006 12:17 pm

Cliff, I agree with your last sentence.
J.D., what are your thoughts, how deep do you want to go with this?
D.D., I agree, this has nothing to do with the ongoing JIvsET issue, just the easiest way to get "in tune" quickly. Defining "in tune"...well, let's not go there.

Tuning by ear is great, if you know what the chord is supposed to be, but how about that D string, or the D#, or the other odd guys when the pedals or pushed? I say,"give the man a tuner!"

[This message was edited by Jim Peters on 13 September 2006 at 01:30 PM.]

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 13 Sep 2006 1:31 pm

So Jerry.... are you now ready to ask how to tune a harmonica ?

Hope not, this expanded disucssion of tuning a PSG simply shows how passionate most PSG players are when it comes to their beloved instruments

Wait until you see a forum discussion of "Black" vs other colors for a PSG

Best of luck to you and your new steel!

------------------
Dave Wren
'96 Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; NV 112; Fender Twin Custom 15 ('65 reissue); Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box www.ameechapman.com

[This message was edited by David Wren on 13 September 2006 at 02:31 PM.]

Jerry Delpaz · Post by **Jerry Delpaz** » 13 Sep 2006 5:28 pm

WOW! I guess this is what I get for asking a simple question.Guess what I bought a cromatic tuner yesterday.I got a korg ca30.I tuned 440 straight up and it sound pretty good to me,but I can't play yet so what do I know,but for my learning scales and such it sound good enough for me for now,but I really thank all of you that posted replys.Some were like a novel,but I read and tried to understand them all.I will print them off so when I learn to play more or less half way decent I'll try some of the ideas you posted.Thanks to all of you.Its nice to be able to ask a question and get ideas from some really nice gentlemen,and I want to thank each of you...Jerry

Twayn Williams · Post by **Twayn Williams** » 13 Sep 2006 6:04 pm

I'd have to agree that a tuner is a crutch, and the sooner you can throw it away, the better. I don't use one on stage. My ear is far more accurate than most tuners, and learning how to tune "sweet" is a part of learning how to play. I'll use a tuner to grab an "A" and then tune the rest by ear. I see far too many players who are never in tune because they rely on a digital tuner.

For an actual musical beginner, I'd first recommend finding a teacher. When I was teaching guitar, I'd have a "tuning day" with my students at least once every few months or so. In college, my classical guitar instructor (Douglas Neidt) would do the same once a semester. Of course, we'd also have "strike the same note for an entire hour" day as well! I wouldn't wish that on anyone

Cliff Kane · Post by **Cliff Kane** » 13 Sep 2006 6:56 pm

Jerry,
you've come to the right place. These guys have forgotten more about the steel guitar than I'll probably ever know. The best resources for me have been my teacher (the great Professor Twang

) and this forum. It's not just an awesome and indespensible resource, but an awesome and indespensible bunch of folks!

Cheers!
Cliff

You can tune a piano, but you can't tune a fish!