The Steel Guitar Forum

I spent the past two days, 6 hours each day, in a local recording studio overdubbing steel on a batch of originals for a couple of songwriters. It always amazes me that producers get so turned on by simple steel parts. Basic two note slides that beginners learn. Simple harmonized scales, chord padding, very basic stuff. The right note in the right place. The sustained note. They love that stuff!
No hot licks... sometimes they will record a "hot licks" solo just to see how it sounds… and they usually reject that in favor of the simpler solo. To the producers (who are not steel players) it’s all about Tone, Feeling, and Complimenting the vocalist… and it’s about saying something with the instrument. To them the voice of the steel guitar is much like that of a vocalist. They are looking for expression and meaning, not flash. Maybe I’m stating the obvious, but I am always fascinated by how others (not steel players) hear our instrument.

<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 24 August 2006 at 09:56 PM.]</p></FONT>

Very well said, Doug!

<SMALL>To the producers (who are not steel players) it’s all about Tone, Feeling, and Complimenting the vocalist… and it’s about saying something with the instrument. To them the voice of the steel guitar is much like that of a vocalist. They are looking for expression and meaning, not flash.</SMALL>

Yeah, what are they, nuts?

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

I agree with you Doug, when I recorded on stuff it was the same thing, and I learned that they are right.... except of course in special cases where wild stuff is what suits the song, or maybe if you are doing a steel solo CD and want to show your chops... For the most part especially behind a vocalist, it's tone, taste, expression and meaning. I couldn't have said it better. <font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 24 August 2006 at 07:58 PM.]</p></FONT>

Thanks! Yes the producers are usually right Occasionally they want something wild and crazy, but not very often.

I learned a long time ago that the stuff we play and hear on Pedal Steel Guitar CDs is not what what they want in the studios. Not behind vocalists, and usually not in the solos either.

<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 24 August 2006 at 08:06 PM.]</p></FONT>

Yeah I hate sessions in general.Usually leave thinking a 2nd year student could do this stuff. However, the greats like Buddy E and Lloyd. Just to name two. Have a way of playing things that will get the producers off there backs and still bend the pickers ears.Granted they get more lee way. And if you're a Paul Franklin you can get away with things that an unknown like myself could not. It always helps if you are somebody. .........bb

Personally, I don't care for the sound of an under utilized instrument. I like the sound of a composition in which all used instruments are a VITAL part of what is going on. No cotton candy for me, where's the meat?

I just love it when a guy figures it out... I truly do.

Excellent observing, and well stated, Doug. The most important tool in your arsenal is not your hands; it's your ears.

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Mikey D...

"it’s all about Tone, Feeling, and Complimenting the vocalist… and it’s about saying something with the instrument. To them the voice of the steel guitar is much like that of a vocalist. They are looking for expression and meaning, not flash."

How does this mean "under-utilized"? Some define "taste, not flash, etc." as under-utilized? IMO that is exactly why so many players play just way too much meaningless crap.

Buddy, Lloyd, Paul don't "get away with more" , they're good enough that they can play simple or complex lines with taste and expression... and they know where it will fit and where it won't.<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 24 August 2006 at 10:08 PM.]</p></FONT>

Yes, when recording (especially with a vocalist) the Steel Player and all of the musicians need to keep the big picture in mind. What's important is the SONG... and the vocals in particular. Each player has to focus on the what the others are playing and what the goal is. Each has to place himself within that framework. And if that means picking 2 strings and sliding the bar down 2 frets at the right moment... Perfect! Those two notes put a smile on everyone's face and convey the mood and the sound they are looking for. It's not a Pedal Steel Guitar CD. What if the drummer decided that he wanted to step out and display his awesome high-hat skills? He's not there to impress other drummers.

Buddy and Lloyd have played a lot of simple, well executed, beautiful parts

<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 24 August 2006 at 10:20 PM.]</p></FONT>

So true. Knowing when to lay out is crucial. If you do too much it's overkill. Keep it simple and you can't go wrong. A good player is a master of restraint. He's someone who has the chops, but knows enough when to use them and when not to.Some players don't listen to the others in the band, and don't see how they fit into the big picture.

Many times producers "mix out" parts that the steel player has recorded. That's always a blow to the ego! It's hard to accept that as a player, but it happens quite a bit. It's not that they don't like your playing, they just hear a fiddle or a guitar doing that part.

<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 25 August 2006 at 12:53 AM.]</p></FONT>

<SMALL>Basic two note slides that beginners learn.</SMALL>

I was recently working out Ben Keith's classic steel part on "Old Man" by Neil Young. The main hook on the chorus is a one string two note slide (A to D) that a beginner might learn. Except it's not quite. It took some very careful listening to realise I needed to start the slide two frets down with the A pedal engaged, then squeeze the pedal out and back in while sliding the bar. It still slides from A to D but this simple/subtle difference in technique is incredibly important to the feeling of the song. All part of Mr Keith's genius of course.

As someone in my second year of playing it strikes me there is a whole art to "That Steel Guitar Sound Producers Love" which doesn't get taught in the usual instructional material. And yet this is 90% of real world psg.

Do you have any techniques for making that two note slide sound especially soulful? Do you have a favorite reverse that always slays producers? Is there a right hand descending harmonic lick that plucks on the strings of every heart? A chord substitution that makes grown men cry in their beer? A never fail harmonic scale? A pad that's...like...really 'bad'?

I'd love to hear about some simple stuff that just works.

I got some studio jobs in KC by "not playing" on a session I did there for a singer. The studio owner, Charlie Kellog, asked me after the session if I would do some more for him because "You don't play all the time".

About 3 years ago I did a demo session for Jimmy Peppers and on one song 99% is only drums bass and rhythm guitar. I did a lick in the first part between the verse and chorus, a short turnaround on the break and a short lick (the same lick as the first part) on the verse to chorus on the second part and a very short ending. (Peppers has written several hits/top 10's and was the Producer on Mel Street's last album).

Any calculus fanatics out there...? The limit of the function is such that perfect beauty is achieved by not playing at all...

In that case, I'm the most beautiful in the land ...

This is what seperates the pros from the rest. We all know players that want to put every lick they know in every song they play. That's what instrumentals are for. For a good lesson in this...listen to Dicky Overbey and listen to Bobbie Seymour's comments on this.

As a fiddle player, I often hear these comments about other fiddlers..."he plays pretty good but the #%$^*& stood there and sawed all the time. When I'm backing a singer I probably don't play more than 25% of the time, if that much.

Maybe some of the teachers should do some "when to play" instructional videos. However, I believe backup is pretty much a "play it like you feel it" kind of thing. If you don't feel it, no one can teach it to you. The licks yes, but you have to feel when to use them. Unless you simply copy the original recording.....how boring.

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Emmons Lashley Legrande D-10 8/4, Mullen D-10 8/4,Nashville 400, Profex II, Bunches of fiddles,guitars,etc....

racmusic.tripod.com

I agree Rick, it's very hard to teach someone how to play backup. Backup is a form of improvisation IMHO. Sometimes a student will ask me to write out a specific backup part for him, but I don't generally do that. I prefer to give the student the tools to work with (harmonized scales, chord positions, etc), and demonstrate how the scales blend with the chord changes, and try to have him CREATE something on his own.

Same thing in teaching regular guitar. Some students learn a scale and they just play up and down the scale by rote... no musical feeling, no cohesive statement. Others learn a scale and they take off on their own CREATING music.

as a listener i dont enjoy "steel" albums. They are often too cold and technical...maybe I just need lyrics? I enjoy the steel in the context of a good song. I feel the same way about six stringers. Albums by guys like Satriani or malmsteem or vai or any of the guitar gods are just boring wankery, one soulful note in a good song just crushes all those million notes a second hollow..i dont even wanna call em songs...

May I analogise - In good literature the 'higher' meaning lies in not what is said by the lines but by what is said between the lines. Is that why steel between the lines has so much 'higher' power. Maybe the best counterpoint to the vocalist's point.

IMHO, the steel guitar is the EASIEST instrument in the world to OVERPLAY. Holding yourself to the bare basics is the hardest thing to do. You practice all these fabulous runs that no one but steel players want to hear and You want to play them. In the six string world, how many of us can limit ourselves to the exact playing of Luther Perkins. Anything more than that
is overplaying on Johnny Cash music. The principle is the same though, regardless of the instrument.

Solo albums by great guitarists like Albert Lee and Brent Mason... both of whom I admire very much... leave me flat and cold. The tunes are just vehicles to display awesome technique, particularly the flash stuff. The songs are not very listenable or musical IMHO. I'm sure there are people who feel otherwise.

The backup stuff that these guys play is far more interesting... because it is heard so sparingly within the song. Great songs are strong in melody, lyrics, and vocal delivery. Our job is to enhance such a song not to take over the song.
<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 25 August 2006 at 10:55 AM.]</p></FONT>

A teacher in one of my orchestration classes once told us "If everyone is playing all the time you are not making full use of your ensemble."

I tend to think of the steel as just another guitar, albeit one that does some unusual things really well. When you listen to the arrangement of almost any song, how many guitars are there and what are they doing? Precious few of the parts needed are for the "play-with-your-teeth-while-the-smoke-bombs-go-off" kind of thing. Playing shred steel is a lot of fun, in your bedroom, but I agree that most of those parts will end up on the cutting room floor if that's all you can bring to a session.<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by David Mason on 25 August 2006 at 12:52 PM.]</p></FONT>

Yes, I had the task of having to fire Albert Lee once in the seventies, his over- playing in the band we were working in, (a high profile west coast group) he just didn't leave any breathing space for the other musicians trying to get a note in edge ways.


Yes Doug B., how long ago DID you figure this out? I feel you've know it a good while. You are a fine player.

<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 25 August 2006 at 01:31 PM.]</p></FONT>

Thanks Bobbe! Yes, I figured this out a while ago, but every time a do a session it still amazes me.

I'm reminded of the Sonny Garrish story... Sonny went into the studio, set up his steel, and while the engineers were getting the track up, getting a mix, Sonny was picking along, going through the chord changes, experimenting with a few licks... and the guys said... "That's great, we've got what we need, thanks". Sonny had not even tuned his steel guitar yet! The session was over in 5 minutes. So you don't a lot of notes, just the right ones.

<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 25 August 2006 at 01:53 PM.]</p></FONT>