I need experienced advice

Robert Thomas · From: Mehama, Oregon, USA

I currently am playing a HWP Mullen D-10 8+4 that I purchased new from Herby in 1999. I am seriously considering going to a new GFI Ultra keyless. I like the idea of the keyless, but I have no way of trying one out before possibly making the mistake of my life, maybe. I need honest input from those who are familiar with keyless. Am I gaining anything by changing or should I just stay where I am? I am coming up on 73 years of age and this will be, if I decide to change, my last PSG purchase. Your help and advice will be appreciated very much.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Hi Bob,
Bob, You sound GREAT on your Mullen!
I'm not sure what you would be gaining by going to a Keyless at this point.
You could probably get the exact weight of both instruments, and compare and see if that is worth changing for (I'm guessing it's not that big of a difference).
FWIW, It seemds to take most guys a bit of time (like a year of changing strings) to get used to the Keyless design, so that might cause you more of a hassle than it's worth.
The Keyless is more sensitive to micro tuning adjustments, but you already sound perfectly in tune, so probably not an issue for you.
The feel of the pedals might be a little shorter, but again, you don't seem to have any problem getting around on your current rig.
With all that said, sometimes a guy just wants a new steel, and to try something different.
What are your top 3 reasons for wanting a new steel?
Pete B.

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

Robert, I am older than you and have been playing for a long time if that means experienced, so my advice to your question is that you should use whatever is understandable to you until you are ready to advance. You will know when that time comes.

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www.genejones.com

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

When I switched to a Kline guitar, it took the changing of ONE string to get used to changing strings on a keyless. It's much easier to change strings on a keyless, and takes much less time. So I guess I don't understand Pete's comment.

Randy Beavers · From: Lebanon,TN 37090

Robert, there will be no shortage of advice here when you ask a question like this. But in the end you will be the only one playing the guitar. The best thing in my opinion would be for you to decide on your own what you want.

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

I played a Super Pro for 20 years, then got a GFI keyless about three years ago (but kept the Super Pro). I am not an advocate on either side of the keyless question, but I certainly don't think you'd be making "the mistake of your life" if you went with the GFI keyless. I like mine a lot; it's what I almost always gig with. It sounds great, and the action is super easy and smooth. The light weight is very nice for transportation, but sometimes a slight problem when it comes to hitting the up knee lever.(But that could be at least partly because it's an S-10D. Of course, if you don't use an up lever this wouldn't be a problem.). I don't feel it's any easier to change strings; actually it might be a bit more hassle--you need to use a screwdriver, and pull the strings really tight by hand before you tighten the screw down to keep the tuning finger as close to the nut as possible. It probably took me a week or so before I consistently remembered which tuning knob corresponded to which string, but now it's second nature. I think strings may last a bit longer--I'm not sure. All in all, it's a really nice guitar: great tone and sustain, great action, light and compact.
Hope this helps.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Brint, the Kline came with a small grey barrel, with a different sized, short Allen wrench on each end. There are no tuning knobs. Sounds to me like it's a simpler system then on the GFI. It works perfectly, but I would expect the GFI system to work perfectly also. I have a keyed GFI D-10, and it's a great guitar. Not as good as the Kline though!

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Curt Langston · Posted 10 Aug 2006 1:24 pm

Mark Edwards · From: Weatherford,Texas, USA

Robert - I currently play a GFI Ultra Keyless, and I have had regular keys as well. I really like the keyless system, my experience is that it stays in tune, not that hard to change a broken string, and I find that my tone is better, (I know it's in the hands) but going from a keyed steel to a keyless, I do notice a sharper sound, and GFI has mastered the keyless guitar. I say Go For It, get it GFI, Go For It, oh never mind.

I'm sure there is going to be folks who will swear by the keyed system, and those that swear by the keyless, just input from a keyless owner.

Robert Thomas · From: Mehama, Oregon, USA

Thank you everyone for your compliments, encouragement and truly experienced advice. I appreciate everything each one of you has contributed and you have answered my questions and I have made a decision to stay as I am. I have no issues with my HWP Mullen. I have been playing for over 60 years and my very first PSG was a D-10 8+4 Sho-Bud Professional which I played for 27 years and then my 2nd PSG became a HWP Mullen because of weight and tuning issues. I feel that what I have has got to be just fine for purposes as anything else available. I became interested in the keyless system, but needed a few answers to be content in my own mind with decision that I would make.
Again, I thank you all.
Sincerely
Bob Thomas

Buck Grantham R.I.P. · From: Denham Springs, LA. USA

My advice is to always play the guitar before you buy it no matter what brand it is. I don't think you'd be gaining anything by changing guitars , but you'd be spending a lot of money. Practice is the answer.

[This message was edited by Buck Grantham on 10 August 2006 at 06:57 PM.]

A. J. Schobert · From: Cincinnati, Ohio,

Robert if you haven't played a GFI then why would you fork over thousands? Plan a trip and test drive one, you may be happy or sad. but at least you didn't make a mistake also you may find. The new guitars are nice but you may find your needs differ.

Sonny Priddy · From: Elizabethtown, Kentucky, USA, R.I.P.

I Got A GFI About Two Years Ago I Belive It Is About The Best I Ever Had And I've Had A Lot Of Them. They Are Great. SONNY.

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Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Bob-I am glad to hear that you have decided to keep what you have and are used to.

There are a lot of fine new steels on the market these days.

But as long as you feel comfortable with your Mullen, then why change?....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

"So I guess I don't understand Pete's comment."

You're not alone, Bro!

FWIW, Alot of guys have said here on the Forum it has taken them as long time to get used to changing a broken string "in the heat of battle" (broken string on a gig), or changing a whole set, on their new keyless axe (after playing keyed steels all their life).
Plenty of reading on topic can be found by searching "Keyless".

[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 11 August 2006 at 09:52 PM.]

George Redmon · From: Muskegon & Detroit Michigan.

Ernie Pollock · From: Mt Savage, Md USA

Robert: when I use universal guitars or D-10's, I always have the BooWah pedal on the 4th pedal, then the standard 5th pedal.
I use them together on several tunes, to spite someone mentioning that they were never used together. I use them on Nightlife all the time. In my mind, thats the perfect place for that pedal, otherwise its the 2 feet thing.

Ernie Pollock

http://www.hereintown.net/~shobud75/stock.htm

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Chris Lang · Posted 12 Aug 2006 5:38 am

Robert you will be doing just fine with a keylees gfi. it is the easiest thing in the world to change strings. Dont worry because it only takes one string and your a pro at it.gfi has the best and easiest keyless out there.I played a gfi keyless 3 years ago and liked it so much i almost bought it.But i play nonpedal so i didnt. Mr Fields is a master builder of great guitars. go ahead and get one.Our pedal steel guy at church says they dont break strings and only weigh a little.I watched him put on a new set of strings and it took him less than 8 minetes to string and tune the whole guitar.he says he never has broke a string on his gfi.

Mike Sigler · From: Give Em A Try !

I Never owned a keyless in my life until a couple years ago! I found it to be VERY easy to change the strings, It took me about half the time to string both the necks and tune them then it did on just one of my necks on my Emmons. The tone on the GFI is fantastic, I use them on the road and in the studio. I have nothing to say but great things about this guitar! And i might add i have Owned 2 mullen guitars. they are great as well.. but im do see many advantages to the keyless system.
Mike Sigler

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Mike,
Thanks for posting.
What are the top 3 advantages you find with a Keyless design?
I like the micro-tuning, and low/no hysterisis (compared to string lengeth over the keyhead).
Do you need to use a puller of some kind to get the high G# up to pitch before locking it down on a GFI?... (FWIW, Sierra requieres a pretty tight pull to set the G# before tuning it up to pitch).
I thihk the down side of Keyless is that it requieres a tool to change a string (Allen wrench or Phillips head), and having had a keyless for 10+ years know, I've found that allen head screws (and phillips heads) used for locking down the strings will strip out after a while (the top of the screw that the tool goes into, the threads on the screw itself, and the threads they screw into). Also the surfaces under the screw-head (and opposite the screw head) that lock the string down get marr'd over time (from the string itself), causing string slippage and/or inability to lock the string down. These things never happen on a Keyed steel, but I still like the keyless, as long as you know the issues and have replacement parts on hand and can prevent them in advance.
Thx,
Pete B.

[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 12 August 2006 at 10:12 AM.]

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

consider the way a keyless looks before jumping off that bridge
beauty is in the eye of the beholder ,
they do look strange

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Mullen SD-10 3&5 / nashville 400

Bobby Caldwell · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA * R.I.P.

One time a dear friend of mine told me ,when I was in search for the ultimate guitar-----" To write a funny story , you don't need a fuuny pencil". I got it. It sure made things easier for me. Good luck in your search. Bobby

Paul Redmond · From: Illinois, USA

When stringing a keyless, make sure you wrap the string around the clamp screw "counter-clockwise" instead of "clockwise". That way the actual tension developed in the string tends to add clockwise torque to the clamp screw thus pulling itself tighter rather than looser. In 22+ years of playing keyless I've never had one come undone. I DO know someone who always had his strings come loose. Since pointing this out to him, he's never since had the problem.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Good line, Bobby Caldwell. "To write a funny story, you don't need a funny pencil." I gotta remember that one.

Calvin wrote:

quote:
consider the way a keyless looks before jumping off that bridge
beauty is in the eye of the beholder ,
they do look strange

I think they look better. More balanced. As you say, it's in the eye of the beholder.

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Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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