The Steel Guitar Forum

The more I read the more it seems like 90% of people who have a D10 are either never playing the C6 neck, making excuses to play it or practicing it a little bit but never playing it out.

I know that’s a broad generalization but is it mostly true?

Not trying to offend anyone. Just seems like more and more It seems like a relative rarity for people to actually play it.

I think your information is a little flawed. Where did you get that 90% figure. I won't wager a guess, but I would bet that it is far less than 90%.

I rarely practice C6th, and I'd like to be able to just haul a S10 to gigs, but there are always a few songs at every gig that call for C6th. They just sound better on C6th, even with my limited chops.

For a few years I played in a Western Swing band. Sometimes over half the songs were C6th oriented. But that band made no money so I moved on.

Paul Franklin on the C6th tuning: C6

Hello Paul, I'm a fellow Baltimorean (born and raised) living in Silver Spring now. I began on E9th, but acquired a double neck with a desire to learn C6th several years ago and I've been enjoying that back neck for a while now thanks to some of the courses offered here. I'm not as confident on that neck, but I definitely play it in a basic rudimentary way.

When I listen to some of the more experienced players on that neck (pedal and non-pedal), I think...Whew...I got a long way to go, but I'm not a spring chicken any more. My original teachers, Mike Auldridge and Buddy Charleton (RIP) passed on shortly after I got the double neck, so I have not had as many live lessons as I'd like, but I'm hangin' in there on C6th...it's way too cool to be an arm rest.

There have been years where the C neck paid most of my bills. In regular country gigs I use it quite a bit. It comes in super handy when you need to change the feel of a song.

Being almost functional on the C neck has got me in the door to some very good gigs.

I love C6th Neck and play most of my break time instumentals on C6th. Practice it a s much as E 9th and I’d say 30 to 40% of a night gig on C neck. If I didn’t play it, I dang sure wouldn’t wag it around.

When I started six years ago I resolved to study both necks and it was only the difficulty of hauling a D10 that drove me to the uni. But I have all the basic changes, so no problem. The playing I do is rather like Six Days On The Road With The Girl From Ipanema so it works fine. If I still had the two necks I'd spend at least a third of the time on the C6.

And although I'm a committed uni player now, I still think two necks look really cool.

Its probably true that many D10 players play very little C6 . Is it 90% ? probably not . Probably 50%.

While I am NOT to be considered a seasoned C6 player by any stretch , the thing is, with just a tad of study, the positions off of peds 5, 6 and 7 and its a whole new world.

Well, not a whole new world but one we can relate to. 1-4-5, 1-2-4-5, 1-6-2-5 etc, in a few positions and it's not out of line to say that we could play almost any song that comes our way. ( within reason)

Doug says if we are familiar with 12 to 15 chord positions we could probably play the entire "fake book", or something like that. Just like on the 6 string guitar.

If we are studying a program, like a Herby, Doug or Jeff program and are not paying attention to the chord chart and positions, we didn't just miss the boat, we missed the ocean ! In one of Herby's programs he shows us Release Me, we can't get much more basic than Release ME. But if all we are doing is playing Release Me, we totally missed the 1-4-5 positions he is presenting to us. Ok so it's written in G. Move the BAR, now it's in A or E or whatever. Its still 1-4-5 and if I recall the entire song is played with just ped 5 and 6 which I believe is the C6 foundation.

It is indeed a different right hand execution to play clean, but none the less, with a bit of seat time , just like the E9, it gets better and better. Don't rush, play simple. We'll never become Buddy regardless of how much we practice !

I play a bi monthly gig and have for 4 years, the opening song each show is "I Love You Because" in A. While I was playing it on the C6, taking it off the 9th fret position, I was struggling because it didn't sit right, it was the wrong root position. So I called my buddy John Swain ( forum member) and asked him about it and he said in a flash second, play it off the 4th fret A grip position. So I did. It was one of those connect the dots moments. I knew the position but never thought to use it. The entire fretboard opened up. All of a sudden all of those Jeff and Doug programs flashed in front of my eyes. Thx John!

Its not hard or difficult, it's just different. I went from being in the 50% that just carry it around to the other 50% who may just decide to play on the C6 rather than the E9. Its the voicing that determines this now. Is it the right voicing for the song.

Go back and look at those study programs.Think simple, thing DIFFERENT root position. Its still C , F and G.

Paul McEvoy wrote:The more I read the more it seems like 90% of people who have a D10 are either never playing the C6 neck, making excuses to play it or practicing it a little bit but never playing it out.

I know that’s a broad generalization but is it mostly true?

Not trying to offend anyone. Just seems like more and more It seems like a relative rarity for people to actually play it.

I can validate what you're saying. Nowadays it seems like C6 is an esoteric subculture within pedal steel. And of course, esotericism is part of the pedal steel mindset as it is... so there you go.

Although E9th is probably the dominant Pedal Steel tuning there are a lot of uses for C6th. My C6th neck gets a lot of use. I probably play more C6th than many but I started out on non-pedal steel. As someone else mentioned they play instrumentals on C6th, I play most of my instrumentals on C6th.

I HATE C6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Click Here

Bob Hoffnar wrote:Being almost functional on the C neck has got me in the door to some very good gigs.

Ha!

Actually over the years I've seen guys buy a D10 and rarely touch the C6. Many don't delve into it till years later.

I let about 20 years go buy without really getting into it, then got hooked. And now try and slip C6 into tunes all the time that are usually used for E9.Now 40 years later I really enjoy it (almost more then E9).

Listen here

C6 melody

Click here

I have owned and played only one D-10 -- an old rosewood fatback push/pull that I purchased used in the '70s. While playing out most weekends over 2-3 decades, I rarely used the back neck. 99% may be a shade on the high side, but I'd estimate a good 90% of what I played was E9.

Nowadays, most of my playing is C6, albeit on single-neck 6-string lap steels. Weighs about 60 pounds less, and doesn't require an amplifier that weighs more than a typical refrigerator to sound good.

I won't wager a guess, but I would bet that it is far less than 90%.

So you won't wager a guess !!

I bet you will !

I love this discussion. For me I work off the c6 as much as I can. My own personal enjoyment is almost exclusively c6. Average bandstand I probably use c6 more than half the tunes. 20 years ago I’d guess it was 1 out of 4 on c6.

I do play some C6th and actually find it easier than the E9th on some songs. I am not saying this from experience or knowledge of Buddy Emmons however, Buddy Charlton once told me that Buddy would first work out a lot of songs on the C6th side and then transfer to the E9th. I do believe there is a lot of strength (in capability) on the C6th side but it lacks recognition for it... don't know why.

I use my back neck maybe 20% of the time (currently doing the 'Always, Patsy Cline' show). If truth be told I'm far more at ease on E9 even to the point where my 'pretend C6' on the E neck is more convincing than me playing the C neck.

On the back neck I lower my C (MKL) and raise the Cs (MKR) so there's already a strong relationship to my Day set up on E9. I love C6th's timbre but I'm not sure if I'd enjoy it so much without that 1st string D note - that gives even more parity with E9.

I'm now tempted to change pedal 4 from raising both As to raising both Es to F - I'd love to get an easy '4' chord with the 9th string root. I'm obliged to Scott Murray for that notion.

Thumb-rake chords are easier on C6 and that fat, warm sound is alluring. I also find single-note passages easier on the C neck. The closer intervals aid this. I wish, though, that I'd assimilated the tuning at the same time as I began my E9 studies - who knows what my favourite might be then?

I don't ask anyone what tuning, neck I should play on any song. How would they know anyway? It's possible it might be different for studio work, but I don't so I play what I want.
You couldn't give me a single neck 10 string E9th only guitar. I consider it only half a guitar for my purposes. YMMV.

I actually bought an SD-10 a while ago but found I was more attached to C6th than I'd thought. It was a lovely guitar (a JCH; I've wanted one of Jimmie's steels for a long time) but when the chance to sell it came I did so without regret.

I do have my Encore but, as good as it is, it's strictly a second guitar for fly-gigs and/or rehearsals. I wouldn't now buy a steel without both tunings.

Roger Rettig wrote:
I'm now tempted to change pedal 4 from raising both As to raising both Es to F - I'd love to get an easy '4' chord with the 9th string root. I'm obliged to Scott Murray for that notion.

thanks Roger, I thought you'd already taken that plunge! you know, the more I think about it I probably got the idea from Jimmie Crawford when I was trying to work out one of his tunes, or possibly Bud Charleton's Almost To Tulsa.


as for C6 players vs. E9... think of it this way: how many guitarists play jazz and swing as opposed to those who play country, folk, rock, pop, etc? it's a much smaller number. even though you can play jazz or country on either tuning, the E9 is definitely considered the country neck and C6 the jazz neck. on top of that, the pedal steel is associated more with country music than probably any other instrument.

E9 is more popular for a number of reasons: it's the sound that drew most people to pedal steel, it's the sound you're most likely to hear on a recording made in the past 6 decades or so, it's easier to learn in my opinion, and it's the sound that's more likely to get you gigs.

I play mostly C6 at home these days, and mostly E9 on gigs. I tend to work on specific pieces and instrumentals on C6, while I'm way more comfortable improvising and backing singers on E9. I'm trying to work on that.

meanwhile, go to any steel guitar show and you're still likely to hear a lot of C6. I also think there's a C6 resurgence happening with younger players like Tobin Hess and Mathew Jut, and some older players who have delved more into C6 over the years. and Paul Franklin's C6 lessons are going to help a lot more folks get comfortable on the back neck.

as Curt said, C6 is still a bit of a subculture within a subculture, but the numbers are actually growing in my opinion. it will be interesting to see where we're at in another 10-15 years... if we make it that far!

I'm no pro, but basic knowledge of the C6th neck has helped my musical knowledge and gotten me a lot of jobs. The bandleaders like it, the audience likes it, I like it. I can play country plus a lot of '50's music, blues, jazz and swing where the E9th would not sound the same. Currently, I use the C6th neck at least half of the time, and I often switch necks in the same song. (Time for a universal? I don't know.) I find it a very pleasant diversion.

Gary, you definitely sound like a candidate for a universal if you're switching necks within a number. Try one if you get the chance. You'll soon find yourself overlapping tunings as much as plain switching.

Of course, Paul's OP was about the C6 neck and I don't mean to hijack his thread to promote the uni