Different materials for changerfingers and sound

Philipp Friedrich · From: Germany

My friend Alf Breuer has replaced the original changerfingers on his Emmons LL II with new fingers made of chrome vanadium steel. He was concerned the strings would cut into the factory installed aluminum fingers over time, and this creating unwanted sound problems. Unfortunately after installing the new fingers in his guitar, the sound was rather dull and way beyond the expectations he had. On my last visit at his place I heard his guitar and to me, it sounded awful. So what is happening with your guitar if you use a harder material for the changerfingers than aluminum? Has anyone made similar experiences, or do the builder of guitars not try different materials than what they are used to?
Alf is using a Bill Lawrence LXR 16 pickup, an Emmons Volume pedal and a new Franklin 12inch speaker for playing. After he reinstalled the original fingers again, the guitar sounded fine again.
Any ideas to explain this kind of problem are welcome.

Sincerely
Philipp Friedrich
Trier/Germany

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

It looks like your friend Alf learned the reason that so many steel guitars use aluminum for the fingers.

Aluminum is a fairly soft metal and the strings will cut grooves in the fingers over time. But that's a small issue that can be fixed with regular maintenance by carefully using sand paper or a sanding pad when the grooves get too deep. You'll know it's time to sand the fingers when the strings have a 'zing' sound, sort of like a sitar. I have to do this about once a year and it's no big deal, but nobody should attempt this until they know the correct way to do it (the information can be found on this forum).

The reason most steel makers still use aluminum is because the tone is so nice -- even though you will eventually have to fight those grooves. That's the price we pay to get a certain kind of tone.

A few makers use harder metals, and that does eliminate the problem with grooves, but the tone changes too. Some people prefer that tone -- or at least they don't think it's a huge difference from aluminum. There's no 'better' or 'worse,' just different tones. Some very nice guitars use something other than aluminum... but I will say aluminum seems to be the most popular choice.

My sense is that a harder finger will yield a brighter tone with more treble as compared to aluminum. I'm surprised to hear your friend's fingers made of hard steel sounded dull... I would think it would sound thin and bright.

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Depending on the exact alloy-mix, I'd think thick pieces (like PSG fingers) of the more wear-resistant and flexible chrome vanadium steel would tend to suck up and dampen string-vibrations, rather than resist and transfer them as is a characteristic we want in a steel guitar.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

its always good to redesign a perfectly good wheel ! Very Happy

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Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

ZB guitars have a hard metal cap that's placed on top of the changer fingers.
ZB guitar are noted for their tone, so who knows?
Whoa!

Erv

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

Replaceable changer caps would be economical and quickly restore OEM performance! Could be done when changing strings. No sanding, no buzz. Doesn't the ZB have this? Sounds like a great selling point although I am sure there are downsides to implementing this.

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

You do not need to reinvent the wheel, But with a need for safety, service and dependability, Material changes are required. No factory wooden wheels on modern cars, Steel, Aluminum or Mag. Wheels are needed for todays speed.

GFI advertises their Ultra as having Stainless Steel Sintered metal changer fingers. I have played a GFI Ultra S12 U for over 2 years. I have found you have to play with amp. controls to get good tone.

I check the fingers and rub them down with a soft rag, Every string change. No marks in the fingers yet.

Russell Adkins · From: Louisiana, USA

I think a few builders use brass for that part of the changer , don't know of any complaints though.The 6061 alloy is pretty tough the 70 s are even more so .

Russell Adkins · From: Louisiana, USA

I think a few builders use brass for that part of the changer , don't know of any complaints though.The 6061 alloy is pretty tough the 70 s are even more so .

Aaron Johnson · From: Lemoore, CA

Doesnâ€™t MSA use 304 stainless in their new changers?

Glenn Demichele · From: (20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA

You guys are probably tired of my yapping, but in the link below I talked about how I used 2mil stainless steel tape over the aluminum fingers of my Franklin. It fixed my string zing without me risking the sandpaper option. It sounds just a little bit brighter to me, but pretty darn close to what it was. Mike Cass recently worked on the guitar, and I asked him what he thought of my mod, trying to milk him for compliments or a some long informative lecture. All I could get out of him was 'its a little bright, but OK". I'll just hang onto the "OK".

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=316291&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25
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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

manny escobar · From: portsmouth,r.i. usa

I completed my 1st steel build in 1983 making the fingers out of aluminum. The second one was done in 1990 with stainless steel fingers. The latter has a sweeter tone. However, there are too many variables, like type of wooden body, pickup etc to attribute it to the fingers.

Tom Campbell · From: Houston, Texas, USA

In reference to Glenn's metal tape:

Wouldn't two layers of metal tape be just as effective as the layer of epoxy adhesive? A double layer of tape should be enough to fill the void/grove in the changer finger.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I know I'm a pinhead in this respect, but I think that many players concentrate too much on tone rather than how well they actually play. Look, I've heard thousands of players in my 50+ years of playing this thing, and I can't recall very many of those whose tone was what I (or someone else) might consider "unacceptable". And even in those few cases, a simple juggling of the amp controls would have likely fixed the issue. On the other hand, I've heard tons of players (myself included) that would benefit more from better playing skills than they would from some "tone overhaul" accomplished by fixing something on their guitar, or getting a new one.

YMMV Oh Well

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

You can hear the upper strings of top players on recordings zing if you listen close with headphones. It's been there to a minor degree even on brand new guitars that I've bought. Like cabinet drop and a lot of other minor annoyances it's best ignored in many cases. Same thing with fret buzz on may top guitar players that use very low string heights.

Glenn Demichele · From: (20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA

I put the steel tape on to get rid of my zing without sanding my fingers, knowing I could always remove it later. I didn't do this to "change the tone". First, I put 1 layer of tape on. The zing stopped immediately, but the next day it was back because the adhesive that came on the tape was squishy, and the string pushed the steel of the tape into it, making a new groove in a the tape. Adding another layer of tape wouldn't have helped. Also note that putting the tape on a perfect zingless finger would make it zing because of the squishy tape adhesive . My solution was to remove the tape adhesive with acetone only where it would go over the top of the finger, and replace it with something harder- just enough epoxy to fill the groove in the finger. I still used the tape adhesive to hold the tape on the finger, but just not under the string near where it hits the finger.
_________________
Franklin D10 8&5, Excel D10 8&5. Both amazing guitars! Homemade buffer/overdrive with adjustable 700Hz "Fender" scoop., Moyo pedal, GT-001 effects, 2x TDA7294 80W class AB amps, or 2x BAM200 for stereo. TT12 and BW1501 each in its own closed back wedge. Also NV400 etc. etc...

Tom Campbell · From: Houston, Texas, USA

Got it!
Thanks Glenn

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

When I built my own guitar I used mild steel for ease of working and it sounded more than acceptable. It grooves a little but I was expecting that. If I build another I shall try Al to keep the weight down, but something harder than the 6063 I keep for general purposes.
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Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

You have to reach a certain standard before anyone's remotely interested in what model of instrument you play. When it happens to me I'll announce it right here Smile

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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

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