The Steel Guitar Forum

Hi, I've been working through PF's foundations course, and in one of the lessons, he talks about bar size, and makes two points, that I'd like to hear other opinions on.

1. He claims that 7/8" is the perfect diameter for PSG. Anything smaller and tone suffers. Anything larger, and its too hard to play accurately.

2. He endorses picking a bar size such that when your index finger is in the correct spot, the butt end should be against the hand near the base of the thumb (no gap), so that it remains firmly in your hand for better control. He says that choosing a "12-string bar" over a "10-string bar" is all about hand size, and not the guitar you play. He uses a 12-string bar due to having larger hands.

I have been using a 15/16" x 3.25" since I started on PSG, and after looking closely, I have about a 1/2" gap between the butt end of the bar and my hand. So, I'm contemplating buying a skinnier, longer bar. That said, I come from a lap steel background, where smaller bars are generally the norm.

I know it all comes down to "experiment and see what you like best," but I'd be curious to hear what others say about these two points.

Hi, Andy. I'm enrolled in PFM as well. I took his advice and switched from a 15/16" to a 7/8" bar. I then realized the gap between my hand and the end of the bar. So I bought a 12-string 7/8" bar and it's perfect. I feel like I have that much more control and my intonation improved quite a bit. I don't have particularly large hands but this is apparently what works best for me. I'd give the 12-string 7/8" bar a shot.

I went from a 7/8" bar to a 15/16" bar and I don't have large hands, I just liked the feel of the larger bar.
Paul Franklin isn't the final authority, it's up to the individual.
Erv

Andy, before you buy another bar, you might try to adjust your hand position to fit your current bar. If your hand is kind of flat when in your normal picking position, maybe you only need to move to a position where the first knuckle is pointed up more. When you do that the distance from your fingertip to the thumb base is shorter. Something to think about, anyway.

By the way, I have a couple of 7/8" by 3.5" bars if you want to try one out.

I just bought a 12 string bar, and am blown away by the increase in bar control. Do it!!

I bought a 12" bar when I bought my 12 string Mullen. It's 7/8" x 3-1/2" (Jim Burden Bullet Bar). I also have a 7/8" x 3-3/8" 10 string bar (BJS) and a 1" x 3-3/8" 10 string bar.

I find I use my BJS the most, even on 12 strings. Easiest to move around for me. I love the 1" bar, gets nicer tone because of the weight (I guess), but a little harder to move quickly. The 12 string bar also feels great in my hand, and will use it too. I use all 3 as the mood strikes me.

Andy Henriksen wrote:Hi, I've been working through PF's foundations course, and in one of the lessons, he talks about bar size, and makes two points, that I'd like to hear other opinions on.

After going through the PF Foundations of E9, I took his recommendation and bought what he called a 'Stevens Bar' to go along with my 7/8" x 3 3/8". I find it mostly impossible to lift the 7/8" straight up, but the Stevens is obviously easy, so I like to use them for different things...

https://www.steelguitarshopper.com/JP-SP1/

My machinist Friend built me a 1 1/4 Diameter Tone Bar, with a 5'8" diameter counterbore. The Bar was great & I wish I could find it .. I sold it on ebay with several other bars... when I QUIT about 10-12 years ago. The 5/8" diameter counter bore took the weight away & the large Diameter Bar played great. I think it was about 3 1/4 inch long, with a bi g radius on the corner...(nose)[/quote]

I was fortunate to be able to talk to Paul about this topic at the Texas show. He explained that anchoring the back end of the bar prevents it from wavering when moving up and down the neck. This has absolutely been true for me since going to a longer bar. I feel like it is much easier to keep the bar in a perpendicular position relative to all the strings and has improved my ability to better play in tune (especially on the lower strings). He also stressed not to raise the index finger knuckle but to rest the index finger straight along the top of the bar. This helps to keep tension out of the left hand, so holding and moving the bar feels more relaxed. In my case, it only took a week or two to adjust to the longer bar, and as I stated above, I have gotten noticeable results.

If you see this Paul, thanks again for generously spending time with me, and confirming that I had a properly sized bar. You were very confident I would love it, and you were right!

FYI - Due to demand, BJS Bars is making several longer bars (even longer than a 12 string bar) to accommodate different hand sizes and finger lengths. The bar I bought is slightly longer than a 12 string bar, and I think is called an "extended 12 string bar".

When I became the 2nd owner of a GFI S12 U a 1" X 3 3/4" 921 Dunlop bar came with it. I have long fingers and the bar allow me to curl the end of my index finger over the bullet end a little, And it sets tight against the webb between my thumb and index finger. This bar gives me the best control I have ever experienced in playing. Ordered another bar a couple months ago it is 11.5 Oz, 1" X 3 3/4" Now I have a spare.
The bar is heavy but it takes no down pressure on the strings. Just tilt or move with no buzz or distortion.

Thank you all for your input on this. As is often the case here, the generosity is inspiring. I'll be trying one of Bill Moore's 12 string bars and if I like it, I'll probably end up with a BJS one before too long. I have a BJS lap steel bar, and it's fantastic.

I went through this exercise some years ago hanging out with Bobbe Seymour at his shop. I was having some issues with my left hand, and he looked at the bar in my hand and said, "Your fingers are real long, you need a longer bar.". He handed me an old, used 12-string bar sitting around the shop and told me to just take it. Sure enough, that was what I needed.

I got a 7/8" 12-string bar initially. I just found the combination of the longer bar at 7/8" uncomfortable, the one Bobbe gave me had a larger diameter. So I moved to 15/16" and that was it for me. I figure John Hughey somehow managed with a 15/16" diameter 12-string bar.

I go between a BJS bar and a Zirc bar of those dimensions. The Zirc is lighter and easier to handle, but there's something about the bite of the tone with the BJS to me. I probably should try one of the John Hughey BJS bars - these are hollowed out in the middle and thus lighter.

Dave,
I have one of those John Hughey BJS bars and I really like it.
It's between that or a zirc bar, as you stated, the zirc bar is a little more mellow.
Erv

I play a 12 string and use a 7/8" x 3 1/4" bar.
With the bar protruding just short of the end of my 2nd finger and extending back to the 2nd finger knuckle,that's the perfect size for me. It allows me to arch my hand and slide the bar back to dampen notes with the 2nd finger without actually moving the hand from it's position. The size makes it easier to lift the bar to do some "penciling" with the tip. It's also a good size for rolling vibrato with the 1st finger on top.

What Collin said!

When I went to 12-string steels, I bought a BJS 12-string bar. Liked it, but found that extra length killed my ability to block high strings, especially string 1, by pulling the bar towards me and having that middle fingertip mute the strings. Went back to a 10-string bar, been there ever since.

There's nothing written in stone for pedal steel, your life likely will be spent experimenting with bars, picks, strings, guitars and other gear!

I bought a 7/8 3 3/4 bar and love it. A lot more control especially on slants. Everybody’s hands are different though but adding that extra 1/4 made a huge difference.

I love the feel and tone I get out of a 15/16" bar. It's the perfect size for me and many pro players. 7/8" is close as well but it just feels too small in my hands. If weight is a concern, you can still use a 15/16" bar and go to a zirc or hollowed out bar to achieve the same or lighter weight than the 7/8" bar. Obviously a hollowed out or zirc bar will have different tone and sustain characteristics as well which can affect your preferences.

I just received my first BJS bar. 15/16 JH lite model. 8oz I will say, I never thought a bar would make that big of a difference. I'm a believer.

Packaged very well.

Butch was very helpful choosing the right bar.

What Erv said!

Erv Niehaus wrote: Paul Franklin isn't the final authority, it's up to the individual.

He is when it comes to the Paul Franklin method… LOL!

Dustin Rigsby wrote:

Erv Niehaus wrote: Paul Franklin isn't the final authority, it's up to the individual.

He is when it comes to the Paul Franklin method… LOL!

Good point!

I use a 15/16” BJS bar, the standard length. I found it to be a nice compromise between the 1” (which sounds best) and the 7/8”. It is very comfortable.

At Paul’s suggestion I tried the 12 string bar. I see the advantage of having the butt resting in the center of your palm. It increases stability. But for me I think the added weight of the longer bar sacrificed agility.

So it is a trade off, stability vs agility.
I’ll have to find lighter 12 string bar.

I did buy a Hillman bar at the Dallas show. It is a fine product. For me, the BJS always wins in a tone bar shootout.
John