The Steel Guitar Forum

Bought a PSG last spring. Coming over from non pedal steel guitar. E9 PSG neck baffles me for some reason. However, I do well on the C6 non pedal neck. Thought it might be good to learn the C6 PSG neck as I'm very familiar with the tuning.
In fact I've often thought while playing the C6 non pedal that it would be nice to have a pedal or two to change a pitch under the bar while playing as this would help avoid some slants.
Opinions and input please.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDCgnyP ... e=youtu.be

If you have an E9th 10 string guitar and you lower strings 4 and 8, put the bar on fret one, strings 10 skip 9, then 8 thru 4 will be the same notes as a 6 string C6th lap steel. C, E, G, A, C, E.

Without the bar, those 6 strings will have B6th tuning. This is the basis of the Universal set up. I would not change the basic tuning of the E9th guitar, try to use what you already have. The other thing to do is take some time to learn the basic E9th positions. Get some instruction.

If you are trying to just figure things out as you go along, it will take much longer. A live teacher would be best, but there are lots of other options. William Litiker has a beginner's course, and all of the Jeff Newman material is good too. Good luck to you.

I apologize for not being clear in my post. My PSG is a D10. It has both E9 and C6 neck.
Thank you for the info on the E9 neck and lowering strings 4 and 8.

Having come from guitar and then lapsteel (C6th), I've been there.
but as a guitar player who has played slide in open tunings, E9 is just open E and C6 is just open A up 3 frets. That is the root of the tunings, before they added all the other notes, in the way I look at it.

I love C6 on both pedal and non pedal. Thing is - what do you want to do with it? Play at home? If so, concentrate on what you like, what is fun to play. If you want to play in a band, you are going to need to know E9. I play band in a band with a steel guy, he's been playing since he 60s, he has double necks, brings an E9 single neck to gigs. He says the few songs the C6 would be best for, he can cover OK on E9, and it is a whole lot lighter to bring a single neck. And he needs E9 for the other 98% of the stuff we do. And this is a trad country band in Tx.

I have a single neck, play E9. I have an extra pedal, I have it set to drop string 3 down a whole step to F#. Use the E lower knee, you have the same as a C6 tuning down 1/2 step - B6. I grab the small bar, mash that pedal, and I have all that non pedal stuff right there.

So, if you plan on playing with others, you should learn E9. If not, do whatever makes sounds you like.

I came from a non pedal background.
I was playing a T-8 Stringmaster so was used to the different tunings. I understood the A & B pedals because they basically changed the tuning from an E to an A, however the knee levers confused me.
An instruction book by DeWitt Scott cleared that up for me. It was the "Anthology of the Steel Guitar", or something like that.
You really need to get an instruction book to clear away the fog.
Erv

Erv Niehaus wrote:You really need to get an instruction book to clear away the fog.

Few if any are better than this one:

Many of today's players started out with that book (me included). From the mid-seventies and still the best book to date, even though it is geared towards the beginner with a 3 x 1 E9 setup -- the standard configuration for student-model guitars back in the day.

Hi Kevin-

If you want the E9 neck explained and taught correctly, you might consider spending $99 for a year's access to Paul Franklin's Foundations: E9 Pedal Steel Basics lessons.

It's a online streaming video course that is modern and up-to-date with all of the techniques and insights gained on the instrument since the mid-'70's by one of it's finest players.

If you decide to continue on with the complete The Paul Franklin Method, you can apply the $99 to that course, which covers both necks.

Here's the entire Course syllabus:

GETTING READY TO PLAY
A Message From Paul
The Parts of the Pedal Steel Guitar - VIDEO
For 6-String Guitarists - VIDEO
Open Strings/Intervals - VIDEO
The Open Strings - QUIZ
Thinking In Intervals PDF
E9 Tuning - QUIZ
How To Sit Behind The Guitar - VIDEO

TUNING UP
Tuning Your Guitar By Ear - VIDEO
Tuning Your Knee Levers - VIDEO
Tuning Your Guitar With A Tuner - VIDEO
The Jeff Newman Tuning Charts PDF

THE PICKS AND THE BAR
Choices For Picking Techniques - VIDEO
How To Wear Your Picks - VIDEO
Choosing And Holding The Bar - VIDEO
Bar Pressure - VIDEO
Bar Exercises - VIDEO
Vibrato Concepts - VIDEO

THE PEDALS
Introduction To The Pedals - VIDEO
The Intro To The Pedals - QUIZ
TAB Basics - PDF
Intro To Pedals TAB PDF
The Volume Pedal - VIDEO
Adding Expression With The Volume Pedal - VIDEO

INTRODUCTION TO CHORDS
Intro To The Four String Groups - VIDEO
The Four String Groups - QUIZ
Chord Names On The Fretboard - VIDEO
Chord Names On The Fretboard -QUIZ
Timing: Working With A Metronome - VIDEO
Practicing The String Groups - VIDEO
The 1-4-5 Progression - VIDEO
More On 1-4-5 Progressions - VIDEO
Goodnight Ladies TAB PDF
1-4-5 Chord Progression - PRACTICE TRACKS
1-4-5 Chords In Every Key PDF

PICKING AND BLOCKING
Picking Exercises: The Arpeggio - VIDEO
How To Practice H.O.T.R.S. TAB PDF
Intro to Blocking The Strings - VIDEO
Pick Blocking - VIDEO

CHORDS: MAJOR AND MINOR
Using The Pedals To Make Chords - VIDEO
The Pedals - QUIZ
The Four String Groups - Major Chords - VIDEO
Beginner Chord Etude TAB PDF
Major Chord Practice Tracks - VIDEO
The Four String Groups - Minor Chords - VIDEO
Minor Chords - QUIZ
Minor Chord Practice Tracks - PRACTICE TRACKS
Pads & Power Chords - VIDEO
Power Chord TAB PDF
Chord Progressions - VIDEO

DOMINANT 7th CHORDS
Open Position Dominant 7th Chords - VIDEO
Pedals Down Dominant 7ths - VIDEO
Dominant 7th Extensions - VIDEO
Playing The Blues - VIDEO

SCALES AND HARMONY
The Major Scale - VIDEO
Basic Harmony PDF
Adding Harmonies to the Major Scale - VIDEO
The Harmonized Major Scale - VIDEO
Harmonized Major Scale TAB PDF
Major Scales and Triads PDF
Putting It All Together - VIDEO
Drones In Various Keys - DRONE TRACKS

STYLES AND LICKS
Western Swing and Blues Rock - VIDEO
Western Swing and Blues Rock TAB PDF
5511 Ballad Intro - VIDEO
5511 Ballad Intro TAB PDF

WHAT'S NEXT?
No Longer A Beginner - VIDEO
Thanks From Paul!

RESOURCES
Tips On Practice Routines - VIDEO
Suggested Listening
Basic Music Theory - PDF
Thinking In Intervals - PDF
Paul's TAB Symbols Explained
The Nashville Number System - PDF
Links to Some Pedal Steel Resources
Chord Formulas - PDF
Cycle Of 4ths and 5ths - PDF
Major Scales and Triads - PDF
How To Read TAB - VIDEO
How To Read TAB - PDF
Blank TAB 10 String - PDF

Your video was very informative. It appears that some people didn't watch it, which is why they're steering you to E9th.

First, tune the high string of your C6th to G because that's what you're comfortable with.

Pedal 4 isn't used a lot by most C6th players. Some, including myself, do without it entirely. You can move the 4th string bell crank and rod over to the first string G. Tune it to raise to A.

Pedal 6 already raises the 2nd string E to F. If you're comfortable using both feet on the pedals, there you have your I to IV bar slant or pull. Or you can move the 8th string change on pedal 4 over to the second string.

The 4th string raise A to Bb is a standard knee lever. Buddy Emmons had it on his inside LKR. If you don't have a lever for this change, you can retune pedal 7 to get it. The parts are already in place. It's better on a lever, though. Maybe you could repurpose an E9th right knee lever.

There are a lot of possibilities in the standard C6th copedent. If you're thinking of removing any of the standard pulls because you don't see how they're used, ask questions here first.

b0b wrote:Your video was very informative. It appears that some people didn't watch it, which is why they're steering you to E9th.

Oh, was the video up before? I didn't see a link when I replied.

No. I added the video when I realized what I was asking, or intended to ask wasn't being understood. My fault. I should somehow have been clearer.

The sounds you are making with slants and finger pulls on your C6 non-pedal are pretty straight E9 pedal steel licks, so that may have contributed to the confusion in earlier responses. You’re really pretty good at that, by the way 🤠

It seems there are plenty of ways to get C6 sounds on an E9 neck, and as b0b has explained, the reverse is also true. I think I would rather have a way of single-footing that I-IV change, though, if it were possible. You might want to have volume pedal control on that lick as often as not.

You should check out Sneaky Pete's copedent. A lot of his stuff sounded like E9 but his basic tinung was B6 (ECAGECAG a half step down). The changes you demonstrated are definitely in his setup (plus lots of other cool stuff).

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=135908

Jack Hanson wrote:

Erv Niehaus wrote:You really need to get an instruction book to clear away the fog.

Few if any are better than this one:

Many of today's players started out with that book (me included). From the mid-seventies and still the best book to date, even though it is geared towards the beginner with a 3 x 1 E9 setup -- the standard configuration for student-model guitars back in the day.

I second Jack's suggestion, and like him, I also got started from this book. As Jack mentioned, many of us have learned from it.