The Steel Guitar Forum

Not sure how to phrase my question but I'll try to be as thorough as I can. When playing covers out with a band do you guys find yourself playing with the chord changes in mind and the positions and changes that correlate with those chords. Or do you play more so by feel and knowing the key your in.

I find myself when playing out or even at home playing out of my home position for my key and kind of playing by feel on what the songs doing more so then knowing what chords I'm transitioning to and the changes. Does anyone else often play like this or does everyone learn the chord changes and then think in their head ok D and it's going to come back to the G. Then C on the chorus etc. I find myself thinking to much often when I try and think ahead on chord changes and my positioning and phrasing. I think i play better when i follow my feel for where the song is going. Only problem I have with this method is when I get a steel break I'm just kinda noodling along instead of using some runs and knowing where my chords are going and ending. I guess what I'm asking is if this kinda approach is used by anyone else?

GREAT QUESTION!
I had to think a little bit before answering, because I have played guitar, bass, keys and steel in bands over the years.

Now I almost always play steel exclusively and I think I do a little bit of both. (following chords or just playing in the key)

I have always felt that the steel player actually has it much easier than the guitarist or bassist when playing a new or partly unknown song. The chords must land on the beat, and be the right ones at the right time!

The steel player can lay out and just play licks in between chords and answer the vocal with a little run and everybody including the band thinks we are amazing...

When jamming with new players, on a song I am not familiar
with, I can sometimes watch the guitar players hands to see the chords, but most of the time I don't need to play every chord change, in fact it muddies up the mix to have too many people playing chords. The cool part is that I can play the chord after the band lands there and I slide into it or walk up or down the scale and once again everybody loves it!

ALWAYS think melody above all else otherwise you're flying blind hoping whatever you throw in will somehow work out.

Get the melody in your head then work on the songs signature licks from which you can start to see how to tie chord changes together with those fills.

Years ago, I had no idea how to play my own lead but it became clearer when I learned the signature licks. I started to fill up my bag of licks using various parts from other songs and from there I was able to improvise much better.

I like to think I have some of the original player and some of me in various songs. This has worked for me for 40 years.

If you don't understand your pedal and knee levers and what they do to chords, you'll simply be experimenting and you'll constantly fight what you're trying to play and wonder what you're doing wrong.

Do you have any video's of you playing on Youtube? It would help us see kind of where you are in your playing.

Good advise Dick.

The steel may be a melodic lead instrument, but the triads are all over the place.

I think it is a big help to know the chord progression because that helps you understand how the melody fits harmonically with the song. The ability to think C chord while playing a melody over it is a skill every lead player should have. It is a similar skill that a singer who plays guitar or piano has, and for them it has to be automatic. It also opens up the possibilities for how to improvise the melody (playing by “feel”) and make your leads more interesting. And if some other instrument wants to take a lead, you can assist the underlying groove with the bass and drums if you know the chords and can change smoothly from one to the other, and can comp a basic rhythm.

I completely and whole heartedly agree with ya Dom. I find myself doing just that on material I am not familiar with. That's the glorious thing about the instrument that and having a volume pedal..

Dick I've came along way from the beginning. I understand quite a bit as I've played music what seems like forever. However I really dont have a full bag of theory I understand which I feel like holds me back sometimes on knowing when to substitute chords or changes in place of something a little simpler. I don't currently have any on youtube I might have some clips on my phone. I'll try and find some to share. I've been playing about 4 years going on 5 now.

Fred very good response to my post. That's generally the basis I try to go off of as far as knowing where I'm at and where I need to be going. I generally try to play through a verse and a chorus with just the chords at least when learning a new song to get the ocerall feel and progression of any given song. I often play with a band with one lead/rhythm player so I cover the backing with the bass when he breaks for a lead. I try not to pad with just basic chords all the time if I can help it as that's a bad habit to get into and can make your playing stale in my opinion if you get into a habit of playing all the time and playing a little more out of a guitar players handbook in that case. But during lead guitar breaks you need that so the musical feel doesnt die out. Gives a little more dynamics also. I do have a tendency to want to play over every phrase so I have to refrain from playing too much. That might be the hardest thing to train yourself to is to not overplay!

I would record everything you play with your band, and then listen to the recordings and fix all the spots that concern you.
Try to get them to play songs you don't know without Steel so you have a practice track.

Good advice Dick, Think Melody.
Someone asked Mr. Jimmy Day how to play a steel. His answer was, "Hook your heart to the Bar, and your Soul to the pedals".
A steel is at its best in Kick Off's, And Turn Around's with feeling, special licks and phrases.

Go to the wood shed, Put on a CD or Y-Tube of Gene Watson, Farewell Party, George Jones, He stopped Loving Her Today, Merle Haggard, Silver Wings, Any Ray Price. Conway Twitty to Work on some of Mr. Huey's Licks, If that gets to easy throw in some Vern Gosdon for spice. Start adding to your bag of tricks. Many of the phrases and licks from the above songs will fit in many country songs with a little thought to place and timing.
And the adventure begins, Good Luck and Happy Steelin.

I'll start off with saying that I don' know if what I do is right or wrong. And because I've been doing it over 50 years, I'm probably not about to change. Personally, I never think about "chords", keys, note names, scales, or modes. Everything I do is based on positions and intervals. All my improvisational stuff is based likewise, on positions and intervals. For instance, when I play a song in E, and the singer says "that's a little too low", I immediately go up a fret. Yeah, I know that's F, but I'm not suddenly thinking about being in a different key, everything just moves up a fret. To me, that's a lot easier than having to think "Well, my E is now F, my A is now a Bb, and my B is now a C". I don't even have to think about chords, everything is just a pattern that I move as is required.

Be advised, though, I'd never recommend that anyone else do this.

Pete- I feel like that is some excellent advice I do not have hardly any footage of me playing other then some recordings I have overdubbed for some artist.

Bobby- I most definitely will do Just that! Furthermore when I hear a lick I'm trying to learn I try to pay attention to where it fits in the progression and how it is used to correlate to stuff I already play and how I can incorporate those licks. Kickoffs is something I've just recently got into with some bands that play "real country tunes" turnarounds is something I could definitely add to my licks and tricks bag. I could stand to learn a few turn around and some counterpoints maybe.

Donny- that's what I get into more times then not and that particularly is what brought up this question and post. I play alot out of just patterns/intervals etc. I've started doing it alot more often and it works pretty decent for me but I feel like I could play both sides of the fence and kinda double up and make my playing that much better. It's just gonna take alot more brain power to think both ways

I play what I feel that is needed at each phase of a song when playing live. If I kick off the song I will do the fill on the first verse and when the second verse comes I have the lead player play the fill. We do the same with the bridges of the song. We do this so it don't sound like a bunch of mixed up junk. My favorite way to play a lead is to do a split lead with the lead player or fiddle or key board player. Makes everything sound organized. When the lead player is doing fill I will sometimes lay right out or I will play some fat chords. Behind him.

I follow the chord progression when I'm improvising. Otherwise my ad hoc melodies don't make any sense.

When I learn a song, I mentally establish what the chord structure is. Then I try to work out how I'm going to leave some holes in my playing to let the music fall through -not over playing in other words. Then, I accent melodies, turnarounds etc as tastefully as I feel I can. When it comes to soloing, I follow one fairly a strict rule: It has to have a beginning, a middle, and an end. I used this system of thinking with my guitar playing for 40 yrs, and it served me pretty well. I find that this system is pretty well established in me, and I am using it with pedal steel as well. I am just having to learn how to "drive", if you will, the pedal steel guitar down the roads I've driven for years.

To me, I keep it simple. Whatever key a song is started with, I find that fret for the key, and do not worry what notes are being played. Just move the bar up 5, up7, down5, down2, up 2, down4, up3. And with the proper pedals, and knee's, your in the right basic keys the song is in. Everything flows together, and your music is made. Starting in the proper key open, or down 5, with the AB pedals down, it all fits.

Kevin- you make an excellent point. I've seen numerous bands execute that exact same thing live and it always catches my attention how on point a band sounds!! It adds dynamics and keeps the listeners attention without having to much mud in the mix!! I have always headed that advice and I think it's a big deal for bands with more then 4 or 5 musicians.

Bobby- that's some fantastic advice as well. Some people say take it in phrases of 3 or a measure at a time. But I think that can help me feel like I'm not drowning in a solo with 16 bars to fill and and no life preserver. I'm gonna try and start applying this method when I'm diving in a break.

Ronnie- I run kinda based off of this same style. However I notice alot of moves and patterns occur often the same for soem songs or styles. Which instantly helps me correlate to what I've been doing and kinda feel free to play around a little and not be afraid to try something different and miss a note or 2 every once in a while.

This is a good subject! I’m curious what other players do.

When playing E9 pedal steel, I do feel like a slave to the chord progression.

On 6 string, I can play freely all over the neck, and either honor the chords, or ignore them, as an artistic choice. I can take a solo without knowing the chords that are coming.

I wish I had that sense of freedom on pedal steel. I am either tracking the chords, usually in open, A/F, AB pedals down, or occasionally “B position”.
Alternately, once I know the key, I play parallel 6ths or 3rds on a string set. To me melody will be the higher note on 6ths, the lower note on 3rds.

I’ve got a few licks that cross through positions. But I’m mostly thinking in a position.
This feels limited to me. I need to know the chord progression.
From listening to recordings, it seems to me most of the pedal steel you hear occurs in the common positions.

John

As a music listener, every time I hear a solo that I really like and try to dissect it, I always find it's following the chord changes. Not a pedal steel example but the guitar solo to Hotel California is a great example of following the changes without being the least bit predictable.

To me the issue is being able to play what you hear. There are tons of ways to get to that point. If you know your chords well enough you no longer need to get bogged down with thinking.

A thing I do is put on a tune and then before playing my steel at all I sing a melodic phrase. Then I play it. Then I figure out what it is and play it in 2 other places on the neck. I don't let my hands lead me. After a while is becomes second nature like walking or talking. I usually know what notes I'm playing and what the chords are. It's pretty important to have some kind of awareness of whats going on so you can adjust on the fly. Donnie's system of position playing is a great template to work with also.

Getting into playing "by feel" can be very limiting. Mostly players just play the same thing they always play unless they take the time to expand there vocabulary.

I don't have a brilliant sophisticated answer or reply. Here is what I have to offer, " I don't think about it " . If I don't know the song or the progression I learn it real fast in my head before I get to the Steel ride. Then I play what I feel I have learned on the way to the solo, be it the melody line or similar phrasing. I don't think about it. And I'm also not worried about it. Typically the melody or similar phrasing "lies" in a pocket, so thats where I head, to the pocket.

additionally ,like many here, after doing this on bandstands forever it seems, there is something in my cranial region which is already pretty close or maybe even embedded, so I go get it !

Now obviously I'm not talking about songs which have the "known" intro's, solo's or turns. I guess thats a given here.

I asked PF about this or something like it years back, he said something like this, not the exact words.

If you are thinking about it, it's too late !

i think for me it depends on the song, but for the most part i think about the changes. i feel that the role of the pedal steel in country music is to energize the chord progression, and that means voice leading from chord to chord. now, maybe folks who are all ears on their instrument can just improvise in the key and naturally voice lead everything beautifully, but i ain't there yet. i need to think about where i'm heading.

that said, one of the things that frustrates me about my playing and fascinates me about the masters is that i tend to resolve every voice leading melody on the first beat, whereas if you listen to say, jimmy day, he resolves the chord somewhere farther down the line, which is less predictable and a little more exciting. maybe he is thinking melodically in the key and isn't so concerned with the changes, but i'll bet he does both.

Dave Campbell wrote:i think for me it depends on the song, but for the most part i think about the changes. i feel that the role of the pedal steel in country music is to energize the chord progression, and that means voice leading from chord to chord. now, maybe folks who are all ears on their instrument can just improvise in the key and naturally voice lead everything beautifully, but i ain't there yet. i need to think about where i'm heading.

that said, one of the things that frustrates me about my playing and fascinates me about the masters is that i tend to resolve every voice leading melody on the first beat, whereas if you listen to say, jimmy day, he resolves the chord somewhere farther down the line, which is less predictable and a little more exciting. maybe he is thinking melodically in the key and isn't so concerned with the changes, but i'll bet he does both.

Excellent point. Hanging on to a chord, or a riff based on the current chord, a beat or two into the next change is a great way to spice things up. You can also anticipate the change to the next chord, like starting a riff based on the I chord while the accompaniment is still a couple beats away from it on the V7 or IV.

I suspect most players are thinking while they play even if they think they’re not...even if they’re just thinking, “I wonder if that blonde in the mini over there knows I’m playing a IVmaj7 over this ii chord...” If you know your music and know your instrument, the thought process may take on a different character that seems automatic, but it is still happening.

I think it helps to get your ear trained regardless of what instrument you are playing. That is, when you get to the point of being able to immediately identify the numeric relationship of one cord to another (you know 1/4/5 etc), it will free your mind up to play a melody or twist to the melody or whatever. It will come with experience. After years of figuring out songs for a band that insisted on doing numerous current covers, I'm finally at the point I can chart a song without an instrument in my hands. I feel this helps immensely. I don't have perfect pitch so I can't hear a chord and always identify it but once I do find the 1 chord, the rest falls into place quickly thereafter.
So practice charting tunes by the numerical cord relationship and see if you can get to the point whereby you can figure out a song progression without an instrument. Then work on transferring chord progressions to your pedal steel. For instance 1 4 5 can be played staying at the same fret bringing pedals A, and B and your Eb lever into play.

Every post I read continues to blow my mind with new ideas and approaches!!! I really love the idea of finding a lick you like and find it 2 other places on the neck. Very intellectual answer as well from the PF quote "if your thinking about it it's already too late!!! Makes complete sense to me because I have been caught in my head more times then not when i prepare to dive off in a solo. Trying not to resolve the chord on the first beat. This could be a huge game changer. I've never paid attention to that but I'm pretty sure I do this exact same thing!! I have developed quite an ear for the changes and how they relate to the neck. Every bit of info provided in this post I soak up a little more knowledge and a little more new ideas to work based off of or try something new. The help and repays have been more then appreciated. Tha is to everyone

Find 3 positions for that lick before you write/tab it. I have charts I've marked up with "less than optimal" positions because I didn't research the positions well enough first time around.