Loosening screws on Emmons pp neck

Jordan Beyer · Post by **Jordan Beyer** » 5 Jan 2019 5:57 pm

I know this has been stated before, but I am a believer now. This is what happened, by reading all the post on emmons guitars good vs bad ect. I thought heck, I'll try loosening up the neck screws to see if that does any thing. Well I tried it. Loosened all the screws, gave the neck a little wiggle( although it dont move much) and tightened the screws to when the screw just started to give some resistence. I only did the e9th neck. Played, and was like, maybe it sounds better, I honestly couldnt tell if i was hearing something different because I expected it, or because my brain was tricking me.

A week went by, and i thought, heck, I'll do the same for the c6 neck. Did it, and played the e9th neck, but this time, I could deffinetly tell a difference. I honestly didnt think it would change, but it did. It sounded more full and lush. Better, but not like holy cow, the heavens came down. But then I tried the c6 neck, and the heavens did come down. It was so "thick" and smooth. I couldnt believe that tone was coming out of the amp. It amazes' me still.

So I start to think about it, any thing,(especially instruments) that resonates, resonates better when its "suspended" think about a drum, a bell, or a glass bottle. When hit they ring. Now put your hand on the side of the drum, on the bell and the bottle, and expect yourself to get the same ring as before. It just isn't going to happen. The energy dissipates from the body of the object and absorbs into you. As were "suspended" it resonates within its self.

Pick a string on you're guitar, then pick the string and place your thumb on the rear top quarter of the changer finger. Apply different amounts of pressure. With every different amount of pressure a different tone is brought forth from it. When people say how the material of the necks does not effect tone, they may be right. But the neck, as well as any other part of the guitar can limit the body of the guitar to resonate to its fullest potential. People say the student model emmons had no neck yet sounded good. So the neck cant be a factor. But when you think about it, the neck may not be "helping" persay, but it can deffinetly limit the overall body system from resonating. My 2 cents, I'm no expert.

Tommy Auldridge · Post by **Tommy Auldridge** » 5 Jan 2019 7:22 pm

Jordan: That's nice to know. I've heard about this possibility before. I collect Emmons push/pull steel guitars, and all 9 of them sound great, but I wonder if they could actually sound even better with a slight adjustment like that. I wish Some of the experts would respond to this post. I can think of at least 5 or 6 guys who could give an expert opinion. Thanks, Tommy.....

Jordan Beyer · Post by **Jordan Beyer** » 5 Jan 2019 7:45 pm

Yes Tommy. Would be nice to hear what the others say. My guitar sounded good before, but it added a nice smooth coating on top of it all(on e9th, c6 however it completely changed for the better). With further experimenting, I did the same with the end plates ( which screws were very tight) and did not notice a difference at all, but what's not to say it still has a key role, and may or may not have a different dramatic affect per each guitar. I dont know if this is the same on all emmons, but I know it's not even close on my 74 msa in comparison, but at the fifth fret, with strings 45, 56, 456, I can feel the vibrations through my a/b pedals

if I use 568 I can go even further up the neck.

Richard Stoops · Post by **Richard Stoops** » 6 Jan 2019 2:11 am

Wonder if this would work on a SD10 Emmons LLG?

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 6 Jan 2019 5:43 am

My car is ok but I sometimes wonder if it could run even smoother.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 6 Jan 2019 5:47 am

This got hashed out a lot in the Bobbe Seymour days. Unfortunately there was always the tone of "you stupid people!" and it was difficult or impossible to glean good information out of all the attitude. It is definitely an interesting area of discussion.

Bill Ferguson · Post by **Bill Ferguson** » 6 Jan 2019 5:54 am

This is true, but be careful, you can also hurt your tone.
Ron Lashley explained this to me one time and we did it to my Emmons LeGrande and I could tell a difference, although very subtle.
Kind of like the difference between a standard pot pedal and the new Goodrich OMNI. Subtle, but very nice.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 6 Jan 2019 7:00 am

Seriously, the function of the neck is to keep the nut and bridge apart, and to do so it needs to be located properly. What is less certain is how tight it needs to anchored in place, and this will depend on many things. My homemade guitar used particle board for both neck and deck, and there is a limit to how tight the screws can be. Tone and sustain turned out to be very pleasing.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 6 Jan 2019 7:04 am

Jon Light wrote:This got hashed out a lot in the Bobbe Seymour days. Unfortunately there was always the tone of "you stupid people!" and it was difficult or impossible to glean good information out of all the attitude. It is definitely an interesting area of discussion.

Bobbe used to waffle back and forth, changing his opinions on various topics. I think he enjoyed stirring the pot. He and I exchanged quite a few email messages over the years about different things. This was one of the topics. He told me one time that the neck screw story was purely lore. Of course he probably changed his story the following week!.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 6 Jan 2019 11:23 am

When I rebuilt my Marlen, it came to life when I relaxed the neck screws.

Gary Spaeth · Post by **Gary Spaeth** » 6 Jan 2019 12:51 pm

did you try it when the screws were totally loosened? that would be interesting. my friend took his neck off and couldn't tell the difference in sound (it wasn't an emmons).

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 6 Jan 2019 3:20 pm

I believe the neck screw lore.

I tried the experiment on a P/P I bought probably 10 years ago. I really snugged them down solidly with a good bit of torque, and it killed the guitar's sound. It lost that '3-d' sort of character that P/Ps are know for. Instead it sounded 'constrained' and 'tight', if those words makes sense?

I loosened them all back off completely, and then just gently seated each one with a light amount of torque, and bingo, the 'sound' was back.

So... I didn't actually improve the sound with my messing around, but I definitely made it worse. I was quite happy and relieved that I was able to get back where I started.

Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 6 Jan 2019 3:24 pm

My screws are loose. Oh wait, what were we talking about?

Justin Emmert · Post by **Justin Emmert** » 6 Jan 2019 5:39 pm

You could be scientific about it and use a torque wrench to measure the torqu you put on it. Would be interesting to compare with others results.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 6 Jan 2019 8:00 pm

Gary Spaeth wrote:...my friend took his neck off...

I guess he didn't wear many ties after that!

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 6 Jan 2019 8:51 pm

This discussion calls to mind the mysterious Max-Tone Mods by Tommy Young several years back.

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtop ... od&start=0

Tyler Hall · Post by **Tyler Hall** » 7 Jan 2019 12:40 am

I'm sure every guitar is different but upon the advice of someone we all know and respect, I tightened the necks and keyheads on my '68 as tight as I could get them without stripping them and it's unbelievable how the guitar came to life. I do the same with my G2's. I'm sure if I told you who told me to try this, you'd all be running out and tightening your necks. Remember, if you loosen that neck, it's gonna have more flex. If you tighten it, it all acts as one piece. But like I say, every guitar is different.

Gary Spaeth · Post by **Gary Spaeth** » 7 Jan 2019 5:18 am

Lee Baucum wrote:
Gary Spaeth wrote:...my friend took his neck off...
I guess he didn't wear many ties after that!

that's kind of hard to swallow

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 7 Jan 2019 8:32 am

Tyler wrote:I'm sure every guitar is different ..

Yeah.. that's the deal for sure, and just for the record when I did my 'adjustment' I was told by a VERY respected and well known P/P guy to 'experiment' with the screw tightness. He didn't say tighten as much as possible or keep a minimal amount of torque. He just said they can make a difference, and to try it. I definitely confirmed they make a difference (as did Tyler), we just happened to see opposite results.

If you think about how complex the physics of the neck/body interaction are, I'm not surprised that:

- You can make a noticeable difference in sound with the screw torque.
- No two guitars would likely be the exactly the same, even same models/manufacturer.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 7 Jan 2019 8:55 am

I heard there was a difference in tone between a slot headed screw and a Phillips head, any truth to that?

Erv

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 7 Jan 2019 8:58 am

Erv,
I think you're thinking of the stainless vs steel screw tone thing..

Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 7 Jan 2019 10:40 am

Turn the screws left or right until your ear tells you what's best. Disregard everything else.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 7 Jan 2019 11:03 am

The color of the shirt you are wearing makes a difference also.

Erv

Tommy Detamore · Post by **Tommy Detamore** » 7 Jan 2019 2:09 pm

FWIW my wraparound sounds better with the screws pretty dang snug. It definitely lessens the cabinet drop as well.

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 7 Jan 2019 2:50 pm

I haven't screwed (pun intended) anything up lately, maybe I should take the screw driver to my bolt-ons?

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Loosening screws on Emmons pp neck

Loosening screws on Emmons pp neck

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