The Steel Guitar Forum

Posted: **29 Jan 2006 2:52 pm**

I have been playing steel for almost 8 years now but mainly playing back up for singers songwriters or in bands. Last year I decided to learn to play some instrumentals I bought some of the Woodshed Workshops instrumentals from Jefffan and started to learn to play them. Problem is it taking me a long time (2 months) to get through one and even longer to get them to a stage where they are anything like the CD so far I can play 4 to varying standards, for example I have been playing Sleepwalk for 12 months and its the only one that I would risk performing in public. Do other player with similar experience find it this hard? Has anyone got any tips?
Alan www.alancook.net

Posted: **29 Jan 2006 3:14 pm**

Keep in mind the "instrumentals" by steelers, especially the sesssion guys, are their attempt to shine on their own... so they've done some really nice stuff!!! Don't get locked into doing tab stuff.... think of material you are familar with and try doing your own "thang"! Be your own man is my advice.... but have respect for the giants that have tread this path for you.

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Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box www.ameechapman.com

[This message was edited by David Wren on 29 January 2006 at 03:15 PM.]

Posted: **29 Jan 2006 4:31 pm**

Most of us are "backup" pickers, not instrumentalists. At our Steel Guitar Club, many are much more comfortable backing a singer than doing an instrumental.

Pick "vocal" songs that you know and play them as instrumentals - that's a good way to start.

Personally, I have a problem learning a song by Tab. I may use the Tab to get familiar with a song or it's chord pattern but that's about all. If did learn a song from Tab years ago and it took me a long time (probably 10 years) before I could play it with having the Tab to follow.

Posted: **29 Jan 2006 5:02 pm**

I've been playing a little longer than you Alan, but not nearly as well I'm sure.
Trying to cop stuff off of albums note for note, it will drive you nuts.
How can I match a player who has decades of experience, and an instrument that has more pedals, knees, split tunings, etc.?
I've decided to stick with the melody, throw in mild variations of my own as long as I don't screw up the song to the point that it's no longer recognizable, and try to enjoy what I'm doing.

There are exceptions like Look At Us, that I want to learn to play as flawlessly as I can, because anything less would be a sin!

, IMO.

Posted: **29 Jan 2006 5:33 pm**

Get A Song In Your mind and Work it Out your Own way Don't Try To Play It Like some Else That's What I Do. SONNY.

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Posted: **29 Jan 2006 5:45 pm**

If you are able to find a lik on your guitar just by hearing it, you may want to try a tascam trainer which is very useful in getting the right notes, chords, and phrasing, which i think is more fun than reading tabs. If your not familure with the tascam for example, you can slow it down in incraments to half speed, loop any part you want, and you have a very patient band to play with.
If you have rythm tracks you can play along and do what ever you want. [This message was edited by Roger Francis on 29 January 2006 at 05:53 PM.][This message was edited by Roger Francis on 29 January 2006 at 05:59 PM.][This message was edited by Roger Francis on 29 January 2006 at 06:00 PM.]

Posted: **30 Jan 2006 12:23 am**

Thanks for the advice guys, Which really takes me to where I want to be, playing my own stuff, the problem I have is making the instrumental I am try to build musically interesting. I pick a good melody from a song I have been doing back up for, find it on various string groups, put the thing together but it never sounds up to much when its done, I did ask Bobbie S about doing a training video on buiding a good instrumental and I think he is going to. I have not tried the Tascam Trainer but I do record what I am working on and loop sections that I need to extra time on. Anyone have any advice on building a good instrumental? Bobbie touched on the subject in a recent newsletter and Jeff Newmans Just Play the Melody has some sound advice, but it would be good to hear how various players approach this subject.

Alan

Posted: **30 Jan 2006 2:38 am**

Playing Instrumentals requires at least a couple of things right out of the gate..

#1 A very functional knowledge of your Instrument and various positions of redundency, meaning playing the exact same things from several positions on the fretboard and understanding the relevance of each postion.

#2 The ability to get the music ( melody) from your head transferred to the Instrument with appropriate or identifiable phrases along with similar tonal characteristics.( notes are in the same octave)

Generally this will come from listening and seat time . Tab , which is always a good place to start, can show you how to play a song but it may not teach you the music.

Treat tab as a reference point.

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TPrior
TPrior Steel Guitar Homesite


[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 30 January 2006 at 05:26 AM.]

Posted: **30 Jan 2006 2:46 am**

Being in a position where I was "forced" to do instrumentals helped me. Except for "Steel Guitar Rag", I didn't really do any "instrumentals" for years - just worked on backup. In the late 80's I joined an Opry Show (Riverbend Opry in Atcheson Kansas) and had to do two instrumentals for the show (one on the first half and one on the second half). Most of the instrumentals I did were very basic or "plane Jane" but it did get me to think about instrumentals and coming up with new songs each week (I couldn't do Steel Guitar Rag every week).

I still do not consider myself an "instrumentalist" but the stint in the Opry band forced me to start doing them and I've improved (at least I think I've improved) on my instrumentals since then.

My suggestion is just work on the basic melody - don't try to get creative at first. When you have the basic melody down then you can start adding embellishments, optional chords, etc.

Posted: **30 Jan 2006 7:23 am**

I've always wanted to play "Bud's Bounce" EXACTLY the way TB did it on the "I Don't Care" LP by buck Owens. Someday...

Posted: **30 Jan 2006 8:36 am**

"Bud's Bounce" EXACTLY the way TB did it ?

I'm with you Ray !

There is only one way
we can do that ! & Its to have Tom's
hands & feet attached to us !!!!!

I agree with the " Do It your own stile "
suggestions here on this post . Tab's will
make you go blind or crazy .
IMO

Hick

Posted: **30 Jan 2006 8:50 am**

"Tab's will make you go blind or crazy ."

I was always told growing up that it was too much SALT that would make you go crazy.. and..uhh..

somthing totally different would make you go blind...

but I know Mom didn't say anything about Steel Guitar Tab..

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TPrior
TPrior Steel Guitar Homesite


[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 30 January 2006 at 08:51 AM.][This message was edited by Tony Prior on 30 January 2006 at 10:28 AM.]

Posted: **30 Jan 2006 9:08 am**

I'll just read enough tab 'till I need glasses

It's too late for the crazy part...[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 30 January 2006 at 09:08 AM.]

Posted: **30 Jan 2006 9:44 am**

Tony, it hasn't made me "blind" yet.

Posted: **30 Jan 2006 9:53 am**

Be patient, Alan, I've been working on "Bud's Bounce" since 1972 and I'm just now getting to where it's fun to play on stage and consistently sounds good.

Unless of course any number of my steel playing brethren are sitting right in front of me, waiting and watching, and then I generally poop all over myself - the last time that happened the boys all allowed - in kindness to my bruised ego no doubt - as how none of them ever plays that song in public for that very reason.
[This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 30 January 2006 at 10:02 AM.]

Posted: **30 Jan 2006 12:10 pm**

I'm having difficulty understanding WHY there is so much conflict going on here about learning to play instrumentals. A full year to learn "Sleep-Walk"?

Why not learn a simple tune like "Bud's Bounce" from the record, just like the original artist did it? Forget the tab. That song just lies there in the E7th/A6th tuning patterns, waiting for you to come along and discover it. What's holding you back?

If you're having a real problem with this, perhaps you need more work done on EAR TRAINING; or, more study of what the fret board represents.

Get an olde Bud Issacs rendition of "Bud's Bounce". Identify the top "E" string and tune your rig to it. Forget the tuners, plez.

LISTEN TO WHAT's BEING PLAYED for one line or phrase. Go to your guitar and find it.

I'm hearing more complex discussion here than I've ever been involved in, during my many years of playing. It's enough to scare anyone out of wanting to accept the fun challenge of learning an instrumental.

Playing instrumentals........really teaches about both tunings and the guitar fret board.
Forget about EVERYTHING ELSE until you learn "Bud's Bounce". On E9th, be sure to use both the A & B pedals together, as if they were but a single pedal.

One successfully learned instrumental will automatically lead to another and another and before you know it, you'll be able to play instrumentals other band members kick-off, having never heard them before.

It's in the Key of F....... Take the simple tunes first; then a harder one. Red Skin Rag is simple, Southern Steel Guitar is very simple, Texas Playboy Rad is another, Playboy Chimes is another and on and on it goes.

Posted: **30 Jan 2006 1:38 pm**

Why not learn a simple tune like "Bud's Bounce" from the record

With all due respect to your admirable experience and abilities, Ray, it's primarily because it's just not that "simple" a song to play well for beginning PSG players.

Granted, Tom Brumley's version - the version many of us are attempting to emulate - is a bit more complicated than the original Bud Isaacs composition, but in either case the last four bars alone involve a large number of three-note passing chords (most of which are NOT simple A+B triads at all) which all go by very fast and are not all that easy to execute well once you HAVE managed to figure out what said chords are and where on the neck to play them, all this while listening to the recorded version fly by at full speed.

Add to this that TB recorded his version tuned 1/2 step flat so that it sounds like it's in E while in terms of E9 methodology he is actually playing it in F. This means that if one is playing with the record, one ends up playing some of this stuff at the nut instead of the first fret, further complicating the learning process.

There are a number of easier ways to begin instrumental development than going for Bud's Bounce right off the top, although to be honest, none of them occurred to me until it was much too late....

There are plenty of simple and straight-forward songs that beginners can teach themselves easily - no recording or tab is required, just find the chords, identify the notes and build your own version from there, you can start with simple triads and figure out how to work in a 7th or whatever as you become comfortable. A couple of songs that work very well for this approach are:

Amazing Grace
Shenandoah
America the Beautiful

Hope this is of some help, Alan
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<img align=right src="http://www.pdxaudio.com/dgsept03.jpg" width="114 height="114">Dave Grafe - email: dg@pdxaudio.com
Production
Pickin', etc.

1978 ShoBud Pro I E9, Randall Steel Man 500, 1963 Precision Bass, 1954 Gibson LGO, 1897 Washburn Hawaiian Steel Conversion

[This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 30 January 2006 at 01:44 PM.]

Posted: **30 Jan 2006 2:41 pm**

All this stuff is really usful and thanks to you all for taking the time to reply. Having read all the comments and advice I think I am talking about moving up a level as I have done a lot of the simple tunes and worked out some easy songs from scrach, I guess I have to do a lot more of that type of work before I start producing material that sound anything like the big boys. Also the next level up looks like a very large step that I need to break down into smaller managable units. On a very positive note I do do about 120 gigs a year with 5/6 original artists. I am comming over to the US with Michael Weston King in Feb-March see www.michaelwestonking.com for schedule it would be great to see guys if you can make it to any of the shows. Thanks again Alan

Posted: **30 Jan 2006 2:48 pm**

" not all that easy to execute"

Thems the words I would have said Dave !
had I though of e'M !

That's why it hard to be TB even if you
know it note for note

when I say ! I can execute
a song !

Believe me !
Murder By pedals
Hick

Posted: **30 Jan 2006 5:28 pm**

Hey Alan, maybe give Last Date a try... a great vehicle to work on touch and effective volume pedal work. What could be better than imitating a piano imitating a pedal steel?

Best of luck on the tour!

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Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com

Posted: **30 Jan 2006 10:32 pm**

What Dave Wren said! I just logged on to add that note and I'm glad he beat me to it.

John Hughey's theme on Conway Twitty's recording is the heart of a great instrumental, great steel guitar sounds and not all that difficult to play - many a night has that sweet little song saved me from having to suffer through "Steel Guitar Rag" AGAIN.

Posted: **31 Jan 2006 3:06 am**

Hi Alan, Please don't be too concerned with learning instrumentals. When you join a straight Country band like you've told me you'd like to, they will be more interested in your "Kick offs" your "Turn arounds" and your 8 bar steel breaks.When the great Bruce Bouton was asked to play the British Steel festival some years ago, he had to learn instrumentals especially for that occasion. Put instrumentals on back burner. Get your knowledge on "Flowing chords" progressions etc etc first and formost.
Enjoy the black Carter when you pick it up soon.Take care mate.

Micky Byrne, England. Carter Universal (Black of course

) and soon to be ressurected Sho-Bud Universal

Posted: **31 Jan 2006 5:09 am**

Hi Mikey I can do all that stuff in fact some of the chord sequences in the original material I play on are complex compared with some straight country music. I see instumentals as a musical development not the bread and butter of a steel players work. I am also working on Last Date great song,hard pedal work.

PS 1 more gig in place Blue Bird Cafe Nashville

Thanks all
Alan

Posted: **31 Jan 2006 8:07 am**

Dave Grafe you have my undying admiration... You explained the challenge perfectly. I've been trying for about that long too.
Yep, going left with the bar you run outa frets and neck...
(TB said a few of Buck's tunes were played in E flat.)[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 31 January 2006 at 08:57 AM.]

Posted: **31 Jan 2006 8:53 am**

Hi Again Alan,I didn't mean chord patterns, and actually some modern Country tunes are not the usual three chord trick. I really ment getting to know how to get a particular chord in "various" ways, not just the open position and the pedals down position. People like Bobbe Seymour and all the "greats" are masters of that.Trying to do "more" with "less" is what Bobbe always says....I mean in terms of knee levers. Enjoy your trip.....not too many Pancakes with maple syrup,I learned that over there....easy to put on, hard to get off

Micky Byrne, England.

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