ZB pickups -C6 problem Low C note

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 11 Jan 2006 12:03 pm

When I got my first ZB a few years back, the C neck pu was weak. I had the guitar restored and after rewiring it is still weak. I finally changed it last night with a different ZB pu and overall it sounds great, like it should except the Low C and the F are weak. Could it be the magnets? I have them all the way out on the low notes.

Could it be something with the guitar and how it translates low note vibrations or something funky like that?

Thanks, Dave Z

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 11 Jan 2006 12:15 pm

Strings? Amplifier settings? bad cord? What kind of amp are you using? Are there any capacitors in the wiring between the pickup and the jack? Did you connect the guitar directly to the amp to eliminate FX and volume pedal?

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www.phelpscountychoppers.com/steelguitar

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 11 Jan 2006 12:40 pm

The top 8 strings sound great. That bottom two sound weak. I find it strange that part of the pickup sounds good and part doesn't. On the E9 all the strings sound fabulous. I thought that if the windings were damaged that the entire pickup would sound bad.
DZ

Larry Chung · Post by **Larry Chung** » 11 Jan 2006 12:49 pm

Hi Dave:

You've probably already tried the obvious, but here goes:

1. I'd try bypassing all of the tone/volume controls and see if there's still a problem. Maybe a bad pot in there somewhere?

2. I'd try (carefully) switching out the polepieces with strings that are strong. Could be the magnets are worn or compromised. This is what I suspect...

3. I'd trade you for another brand of guitar (Electraharp? Harlin Bros.?) and you could send the ZB down here to SF so I can "deal" with your problem. Heh heh heh. (;

Some questions, too - does it only happen on the C6 side? does it matter if you use different tone/coil settings on the pickup?

Good luck, let me know what you discover in the process. Sounds like your coils aren't the problem. Polepieces, I say!

And, in case any of you out ZBers are reading this out there, I'm still looking to find a few polepieces for a ZB pickup. If you have an old ZB pickup (working or not) - student model pickup is OK, too - that you're willing to part out or part with, please let me know.

ZBest,
LC[This message was edited by Larry Chung on 11 January 2006 at 12:51 PM.][This message was edited by Larry Chung on 11 January 2006 at 03:58 PM.]

Jim Eaton · Post by **Jim Eaton** » 11 Jan 2006 1:22 pm

I'm no electronics guy, but it seems that at some point in time I was told by "a real electronics" guy that if you over adjust those pole pieces and get them too far out of the wire coil, you will get a weaker responce from that string. So maybe you should crank em back down some and see if it improves. Just a thought.
JE:-)>

Lyle Clary · Post by **Lyle Clary** » 11 Jan 2006 1:33 pm

As I have stated in an earlier topic, I have a similar problem with my Serial #0154. The c6th pickup is definately not as hot as the E9th. Adjusting the pole pieces does not help any.

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1969 ZB Custom D10, BMI S10, 1981 Peavy Musician Mark III, 15 Inch Black Widow, custom enclosure

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 11 Jan 2006 1:47 pm

I tried adjusting the pole pieces and it did not help. Tonight I'll replace them with pieces from another pickup and see.

Larry, if you want to trade I'll take your S-11 for my D-10 8 x 3(assembly rquired)

DZ[This message was edited by Dave Zirbel on 11 January 2006 at 01:55 PM.]

Larry Chung · Post by **Larry Chung** » 11 Jan 2006 3:57 pm

Hey Dave:

Let me know about the polepiece transplant - I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Hi Lyle - it's not uncommon for the pickups to be stronger or weaker on the same guitar. If there's a huge difference, you may want to think about a pickup rewind. But I've played several ZBs that had a slightly unbalanced pickup-vs-pickup output, and they all again had that lovely ZB tone. You may just want to back the stronger pickup off a bit and use a bit more amp volume, too.

Dave's question (I think) is about lower output on a couple of strings, not the whole pickup. Yes?

All ZBest,
LC

B. Greg Jones · Post by **B. Greg Jones** » 11 Jan 2006 4:41 pm

Here is something to try. There are two rows of magnets on the outside of the coil. Have the magnets ever been out of the pick-up? (not the center pole piece screws) You have to have the magnets in there with all the like poles facing the same direction. Meaning this. If you took all 20 magnets out of that pick-up and put the ends that are facing the top of the pick-up end to end, they should PUSH away from each other. If the magnets attract, the pick-up will still work but with a much weaker output. This could happen on any one string or the whole pick-up if the magnets are in there wrong. So, keep in mind that there is a North and South pole to those magnets. All the North ones go up and all the South ones go down.

If I remember right your E9th pick-up was wound a little hotter too overall, which as Larry said, is pretty common on ZB's one neck or the other.

As far as the weak pick-up goes, I ran into the same problem on Jim Florence's guitar. I had the magnets in wrong and it really takes the output down. I guess is messes up the flux or magnetic flow whatever you call it. If you have any type of magnet laying around, you can try this. Check each pole (not the screws) individually while the pick-up is still in the guitar. Your spare magnet should want to stick to each pole in the pick-up. If it pushes away on the 9th and 10th strings, you will have to flip that pole over. At 1st all of this didn't make any sense to me when it happened to me. I just stumbled across it by trial and error.

Hope some of this helps ya out Dave. Shoot me an email if ya need some more help.

Greg

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 11 Jan 2006 6:22 pm

Thanks Greg. Nice to see you on the forum! I'll give it a try.

#0115 is getting plenty of action out here on the west coast! In the studio and live gigs, but mostly in the studio. It records great and doesn't take any effort to dial in great tone.

Dave Z

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 11 Jan 2006 10:05 pm

Why don't you turn the pickup round and see if the top two strings are now weak, and the bottom two strong?
If they are, this will tell you that the pickup is faulty.

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 12 Jan 2006 9:50 am

Don't know if this helps, bit I bought a Rickenbacher console, and the wires from the pickup winding had been reversed when connected to the tone and volume pots.... switching them made a huge difference, particularily on the larger strings.

BTW, did you resolve the wound? vs plain? vs gauge? 6th string problem?

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Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 12 Jan 2006 10:05 am

I switched the pole pieces and it didn't really seem to help. I'll probably just leave it for now or maybe try a new or different gauge string.

Hi David. The 6th plain vs. wound was never really a problem. I was getting ready to order strings and wanted to make sure I got what I needed and wanted to use. I stuck with the plain. Why fix it if it ain't broke.

DZ[This message was edited by Dave Zirbel on 12 January 2006 at 10:39 AM.]

Larry Chung · Post by **Larry Chung** » 12 Jan 2006 11:42 am

D'oh!