The Steel Guitar Forum

I came to pedal steel from playing 6-string in addition to other fretted instruments, but the string numbering convention has never made sense to me.

I suppose when looking at an instrument as worn by a player, there is some logic to thinking of numbering strings bottom-up. Granted, for those who were left-hand players and didn't re-string their instruments, effectively playing them upside-down, that wouldn't apply.

But let's think about this for a second.

As a musician, my concept of string numbering has nothing to do with geometry and orientation. It's all about pitch. Even in terms of position, the string "closest" to the player, whether to their body or their eye, is almost always the lowest pitch, and the one I think of as the first string.

Except 5-string banjo. And ukulele. Because evolution made them odd.

So why does the convention feel so backwards?

In my mind, proximity or pitch should really declare what string order is. The lowest strings are, in fact, also the ones closest to my body when in a playing position. And as a western language-speaker, I even read left-to-right.

Fingers are "numbered" from index to pinky.
Frets are numbered low-to-high.
Notes on scales are numbered low-to-high.

So as I am learning the instrument, reading tablature or interpreting copedent charts really, really mucks with my number-from-low-to-high brain. It wants to count low to high, left to right, close to far, and I find myself doing a lot of mental transposition.

I just gotta ask--am I alone in thinking this way?

Seems like such a random question and a rambling post, I know, but good fodder for discussion.

Paul Pederson wrote: I just gotta ask--am I alone in thinking this way?

No, Paul. Not at all. I feel the same as you do. And when I've spent a little time teaching my wife 6-string guitar, if I say "the first string," she says, "This one or that one?" And you know which two she's asking about!

I had a PSG student that consistently confused himself by counting the strings in the wrong order. He just couldn't seem to get the concept of counting the strings from farthest from you (#1) to closest to you (#10). He didn't last long as a steel player. As patiently as I'm capable, I repeatedly explained the universally accepted manner of referring to the strings. But to no avail.

There is no sense in trying to change the world on this issue. This is like trying to learn a foreign language and wishing sentences were constructed in the same manner as one's native language. You must learn the language if you want to communicate.

Paul, let me ask you a question. When you put new strings on your guitar, whether it be straight guitar or steel guitar...which string do you start with?

When some one invents, develops or modifies something they usually pick the way it is used and name the parts as part of the registering a patten. They named and numbered things we just have to live with it.

My 8-year-old grandson is learning guitar at school. He thinks it's kinda cool that the top string's at the bottom and the bottom string's at the top.

1: While playing, take a look at your fretboard
2: and then ask yourself...
3: why do I read from top
4: to bottom
5: and assign numbers the way I do ?
6: All my regular 6strings, basses, lapsteels
7: pedal-steels, I prefer to follow the numbering
8: where the highest pitched string(more or less)
9: is numbered as #1 and the rest of the strings
10: are numbered increasingly.

Ask a piano player about numbering strings and you gonna get a tilted answer

B.Erlandsen

It's just one of those "is" things.
Before I took up pedal steel I just pretty much ignored numbering conventions, because it really didn't make any difference.
But, with the changeable notes, changeable chords, there's no realistic way to talk about it except by string numbers.
At that point it became, learn the language. It's like learning any technical language - the language got here first, and I just arrived.
I spent some weeks picking strings, tuning strings, and saying the accepted number out loud. After a while I could speak PSG almost like a native.

I've been playing stringed instruments since I was 10 years old (70 years ago). I always associated the highest string as #1 (e.g. high E string on a 6 string guitar). I remember 6 string guitar string sets with the string number printed on the envelopes that used that convention. I had a "Little Roy Wiggins" instruction book for lap steel, around 1950, and it listed the high string as #1 so its not something new specific to pedal steel guitar.

I have noticed, that whenever guitar necks are printed up on paper, the strings are numbered top to bottom. Except in left hand guitars, the top are always the smallest.............

I don’t know if many still teach that way, but “ back in the day” 6 string guitar and lap steel instruction in music stores usually taught standard notation reading and started with simple melodies on the first (thinnest) string. A pile of conventions.

Around 1975/6 I got the bug to learn ragtime/ blues fingerpicking guitar, went down to our local music store where the teacher ripped some Atkins and Reed stuff, said he would teach me that. I showed up all excited with my $5 and he proceeded to teaching me how to read “Little Brown Jug” on the first string, because, well, “that’s how everybody learns”. “Except me” was my rejoinder as I left. Fortunately found a great finger stylist in another town who taught by theory and tab, and exactly what I wanted to learn.

The string numbering convention probably originated when taken in context of the written musical staff where higher notes are on top & lower ones on the bottom

Bobby D. Jones wrote:When some one invents, develops or modifies something they usually pick the way it is used and name the parts as part of the registering a patten. They named and numbered things we just have to live with it.

The terminology of "top and bottom" and "low and high" causes a lot of confusion with beginners. We would probably be better off referring to the strings as "bass and treble".

Why are strings numbered like that?

Because they are. It's totally arbitrary, either is reasonable. But to make it possible to communicate with other players, a standard nomenclature had to be devised. This has been settled for decades if not centuries, so the reasons no longer matter unless you want to tilt at windmills.

I can't see why there is any confusion. The strings are numbered 1 to n from high to low. Accept it or be forever confused when trying to figure anything out.

Bigger strings get bigger numbers.
The End.

We read from the top down. Ordered lists start with 1 at the top. But wait, there's more...

Your question would make sense on a standard guitar forum, but once you put a guitar on your lap the numbering is obvious. This is a pedal steel forum. Steel players don't count from the bottom up.

Suppose you're an S-10 player talking to a U-12 player. String #4 would have a different meaning if we started counting at the bottom. I can't even wrap my head around that degree of confusion.

Right, b0b.

And I made a rookie misstatement. Strings 1& 2 on E9 throw of the whole smallest-to-largest gauge scheme.

So many ways to be wrong about the simplest things...

Donny Hinson wrote:Paul, let me ask you a question. When you put new strings on your guitar, whether it be straight guitar or steel guitar...which string do you start with?

Actually I put 5 and 6 on first and then work outwards... but yeah, on a guitar it's 6.

Donny Hinson wrote:Paul, let me ask you a question. When you put new strings on your guitar, whether it be straight guitar or steel guitar...which string do you start with?

Donny,
I always start with low-E on my 6-string. Probably a lousy practice, makes for fun times getting strings stretched and tensioned just right on a floating tremolo!

b0b wrote: Your question would make sense on a standard guitar forum, but once you put a guitar on your lap the numbering is obvious. This is a pedal steel forum. Steel players don't count from the bottom up.

I would argue that all that changes from wearing a guitar to playing it horizontal (as in lap and PSG) is that the instrument itself simply rotated on its major axis. From the player's perspective, the strings are still oriented and arranged the same, from lower pitches nearest the torso to higher pitches.

Who'd have thought such a trivial thing would drum up so many responses?!?

Tommy Mc wrote:

Bobby D. Jones wrote:When some one invents, develops or modifies something they usually pick the way it is used and name the parts as part of the registering a patten. They named and numbered things we just have to live with it.

The terminology of "top and bottom" and "low and high" causes a lot of confusion with beginners. We would probably be better off referring to the strings as "bass and treble".

What did the flute player say to the bass player? "Nobody knows the treble I've seen".

Ian Rae wrote:My 8-year-old grandson is learning guitar at school. He thinks it's kinda cool that the top string's at the bottom and the bottom string's at the top.

made me lol.

I don't think as much of the numbers as I do the note?
After playing guitar for fifty years I never think of the string numbers. I am sure that will come with playing the steel. I have no problem with the order, but as I am learning to play I still have to stop and figure which string is which sometimes because I can't see the #10 string and can barely see #9 lol. I will know where they all are instinctively after awhile. I can almost hit the correct string consistently now. I have flat picked almost my entire career and have only really concentrated on finger picking for the last two years, without finger picks. Getting used to these finger picks is a huge challenge. The first time I ever tried playing I put them on backwards duh.