The Steel Guitar Forum

I play 6 string telecaster and strat lead guitar for about 20 years and I have been thinking of getting a 10 string single neck pedal steel to learn on and I am wondering what the advantages or disadvantages are of a keyless vs keyed?
Thank you so much for your help in advance,
Steve Lafferty

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keyed vs keyless

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Due to keyhead resonance, a keyed guitar tends to have more tonal difference from one string to the next. I don't think of this as an advantage or disadvantage, but some people have a distinct preference.

It's been claimed that keyless guitars have less hysteresis*. My limited experience (Sierra and Williams guitars of both kinds) doesn't bear that out. I saw no significant difference on a sensitive meter. I now believe that hysteresis happens in the bridge and roller nut, not in the keyhead of a keyed guitar. In any case, most modern guitars have hysteresis down into the "almost inaudible" range. I can see it on the meter, but I'll be darned if I can hear actually hear it.

I can change strings faster on a keyless guitar, but some people are more adept at winding around keys. People often argue pro and con on this issue. Some people don't like having to use a tool to tune, others think it's no big deal.

*hysteresis - what steel players call the physical effect of a raised string returning flat or a lowered string returning sharp.

I have one each.. a Jackson 12 and an Excel 12.. the keyless Is much lighter and compact.. much easier to carry ( if that is a concern.. I’m 66 so it is getting to be more of a concern). If you travel with the guitar, keyless really helps conserve weight.

Depending on the keyless, changing strings can get a little “fiddly” but you will quickly learn how it works.. I’m not sure I would let keyed or keyless determine whether I bought a steel or not if the price was right, but All else equal I would now lean to keyless for the reason mentioned above.

Keyless guitars can have much more compact and lighter bodies. Saves a lot of room in the studio and on the stage especially if you are playing multiple instruments on a crowded stage.

I've owned and played about 5 keyless pedal steels. 2 D10's, and 3 universal guitars. 2 14 stringers and 1 12 string. I've owned and played an equal number of conventional keyhead guitars in different configurations.

Like Hal, I just don't find any serious hindrances or advantages either way.

I will say that many keyless guitars are more compact. If you're a very tall and/or large person, you may find them to be a bit cramped space wise. OTOH, smaller players find that to be a plus.

One of the keyless guitars I owned was a Williams. Only one or two of the current builders that I know of that lets you a choose a conventional keyhead or a keyless one. Given the choice of either on the same build, I'd choose keyless. FWIW.

It has seemed to me, without having any actual experience with one, that very fine tuning changes would be easier with a keyless. I do have pretty severe arthritis and it's difficult for me to turn keys bare handed, but... It's just wishful thinking, maybe. Like I said, I've not tried one. I notice nobody referred to such a thing in previous comments.

I've said this before...I have never heard a keyless guitar that I thought sounded good; it just ain't there. 'Course that's just me.

To each there own but I prefer keyed guitars which is my comfort zone.

That comfort may be as much down to ergonomics as sound. If you're used to your A pedal being to the left of the nut, that space is gone and it's now roughly where the C pedal was.

To operate all the pedals on my keyless uni comfortably I sit opposite the 17th fret, which will seem extreme to many folks. But I'm used to it now and it works. I can imagine that sitting down at a keyless for the first time could be quite disorientating.

Years ago there was a keyless tuner on the market and I put it on my Sho~Bud. The guitar lost some of the richness that it had with the keyed head.
Your mileage may vary.
Erv

There is no doubt at least in my mind that what an engineer might regard as an imperfection (such as the spare string at a keyhead) lends character to an instrument. My best example is the bassoon which if properly constructed would cease to exist.

fwiw, I have both Keyed and Keyless Steels, and gig with both.
Once the song kicks off and the band starts playing it really makes no difference to me.

As long as I've been playing I've never played a keyless guitar or a Fender pedal steel guitar.

It's kind of a no-brainier if compactness is your big interest - keyless design rules in that department. And if you're just starting out, any small sonic differences likely won't matter very much.

For some reason, though, most pros avoid them. The only reasons I can come up with are the unconventional look and small size, or how they sound. For the other 99% of us, I think you can sound good on either. Just pick a guitar and start learning, that's what's important.

Papa John was very interested in my Kline Uni.

My Kline Uni is Keyless and is both my physically smallest guitar, and also my heaviest guitar.
I keep it at my friends place in Montana, and have a gig there Labor Day Weekend.
Another friend has a Willians Keyless S12U which is also very compact and under 50lbs in the case, for flying.
If I were going to buy an S10 I would look very seriously at a Williams Keyless. In the case, it looks like a trumpet or sax sized instrument.

Pete Burak wrote:Once the song kicks off and the band starts playing it really makes no difference to me.

Donny Hinson wrote:Just pick a guitar and start learning, that's what's important.

Agreed and agreed.

Pete Burak wrote:In the case, it looks like a trumpet or sax sized instrument.

This is true. The case for my little keyless Williams S-10 is about the size of a tenor sax case.

Love my keyless.

I have retired from gigging. Selling everything. But going to buy another Kline U-12 to play at home. Wonderful guitar, even though I'm a huge ShoBud fan!

fwiw, I think my Kline S12U sounds pretty Sho-Bud-ee.

I agree Pete!

Lee Baucum wrote:

Pete Burak wrote:In the case, it looks like a trumpet or sax sized instrument.

This is true. The case for my little keyless Williams S-10 is about the size of a tenor sax case.

So is my Excel U-12

I was going in to play my D-10 Shobud at Ponderosa Park. I saw this little case and thought "Oh no!" Im going to have to suffer through Yakkety Sax! But when the guy opened the case, it was a Kline! Bought one the next day,