The Steel Guitar Forum

I’m thinking of Adding the Jimmy Crawford knee leaver cluster an more pedals to my steel would this put me on the fast track to become a super Pro player? 😂

Johnie King wrote:I’m thinking of Adding the Jimmy Crawford knee leaver cluster an more pedals to my steel would this put me on the fast track to become a super Pro player? 😂

no ,i don't think so. you can do a lot with 8+4
learn at your own pace. just my 2 cents

p.w

Absolutely NO!!

The magic 8 ball says not likely.

Guys u know I’m being facetious ,l hope. I’m a firm believer for a want to be Paul Franklin player less is more for me. An would love to here what Paul’s input on the subject would be.

.....

I heard some great music without any pedals, and I heard some serious crap on 10 pedals...

By their posted copendents. Mr. Green uses 3 pedals and 4 knee levers. Mr. Franklin uses 4 pedals and 5 knee levers. If you hear them play, Sounds like they have many pedals and levers. If you watch them play you see a lot of bar slants. And slants are easy to remember and their guitars weigh less. lot easier to work on and keep tuned too. Their ability to use what they have is what makes them great musicians they are.

For my first 30+ years as a steel player, I played a D10 8+2 Shobud. I didn't even lower the top E per Lloyd's influence. I fought the notion of adding levers, mainly because I really couldn't afford a more modern steel....so think a big "sour grapes" on my part. I thought I knew better than to lose the top G in favor of BE's brilliant D on string 1 of my C6. Yada Yada... the list goes on.

In one way, I'm glad I was such a lughead about that stuff. Maybe I learned the necks a little better without all the modern options that our instrument has evolved to? After all most of the first wave of great PSG players started on 6 sting non pedals....

But now that I have the amazing instrument that I currently have, and looking back at how I rationalized not keeping up with the times and well thought out innovations that were well thought out by the true innovators, all I can say is.... What was I thinking?

Yes of course. You will also need:
-14 strings
-a $150 bar,
-stereo boutique amps
-rack mount effects that say “Pro” on them
-custom picks
-an agent
-and a Maserati in your driveway.

Five golden rings and a partridge in a pear tree optional.

....

Fred Treece that’s exactly what I’m eludeing to for me less is more. You for got the Half stop.

I guess I don't understand the point of this post. I don't know anyone who adds pedals and levers just for show or in thinking it will make them a pro player. I think expressing that notion is kind of insulting to those players who like to have a loaded up guitar for whatever reason they choose.

Many players have 8 and 8 on a double neck guitar, some have 9 pedals, or 10...same with levers. Is that excessive? Who decides? The player, that's who. Do you think Jimmy Crawford came up with the cluster just to have more stuff on his guitar?

Or 8 and 5, is that too little? How about the Franklin pedal and 1+2 string pulls? Are those unnecessary too?

You can have as many or as few devices as you like. Same for electronic gear.
Whatever works for you. There's no reason to deride players who use a different number, different pulls, different tuning.
We didn't have any in the beginning. Should there not have been 8 strings, 10 strings, 12 strings, double necks, not even pedal steels?

I don't see what purpose this type of discussion serves. I don't think anyone is going to change up their setup as a result of it.

I guess I missed the point as well, of course more knee levers do not make us a pro any faster , what they do, if we understand their use, is allow us to be perhaps a bit more creative . Comparing what we do or what we have is not relevant to what Lloyd or Paul have and may use, they are MASTERS .

How many chords should a guitar player learn ? C, F and G and be done with it ?

Even if we have a lever with 1 single raise or lower and we use it only 3 or 4 times in 1 night to compliment something we may be playing, thats a good thing. It's no different than a guitar player or keyboard player adding a substitution chord now and then. We may know dozens of sub chords but may only use a few now and then, at the right time.

The caveat is don't carry a loaded Steel with a kazilion levers unless you plan on understanding their uses. There is a ton we can do with 4 levers, certainly , but adding another lever can even enhance the 3 or 4 we already have.

The modern era C6th tuning is a perfect example, 1 lever is well, minimal, 2 is better, 3 is REALLY better and 4 is REALLY REALLY better.

I guess the answer to adding levers is yes it can enhance our playing , if we actually study their uses and put them to work. Otherwise we are just adding weight to an already heavy instrument !

Some years ago, a famous violinist made a visit to New York city. He was asked to play a concert in Carnegie Hall. He lost his bearings on his walk from the hotel and asked one of street people,
"How do you get to Carnegie Hall?"

And the reply for both he and YOU, "Practice man, practice."

No, More knee's and pedals won't make you progress faster. 3 pedals and the "E" raise and lower knees will provide you more than enough. The other 2 or 3 knees just makes it more fun to explore.

Tony Prior wrote:
How many chords should a guitar player learn ? C, F and G and be done with it ?

Tony,
Have we met? Where did you hear me play?

Mitch

Dont listen to any of these guys add all the peds and knees you want and go for it lol

Kevin Fix wrote:No, More knee's and pedals won't make you progress faster. 3 pedals and the "E" raise and lower knees will provide you more than enough. The other 2 or 3 knees just makes it more fun to explore.

So we only want to learn "to a point" and then stop learning ?

I only know one way home from the grocery store !

I'm with Kevin, on E9th, all you need is the standard 3 floor pedals and raise and lower the E's. If you want a 3rd pedal, then add the 2nd string D#/C# lower. Don't make a complicated instrument even more complicated. Less is more.

Johnie King wrote:Fred Treece that’s exactly what I’m eludeing to for me less is more. You forgot the Half stop.

Johnie, I believe the half stop is covered in the “partridge in a pear tree” clause.

I started in 1975 with a PP with 8x7. Now, I'm down to a 3x4 and could get by with 3x2. If I could only raise and lower my E's, I'd be a happy camper. Oh, and I did own a JCH with a "Crawford Cluster' at one time and sold it quickly - just too many things going on and it was hard to even get comfortable playing it - great guitar, though. There are folks out there who like to swap copedants and investigate new ways of doing things and that's fine if you enjoy it. I like to just take it out of the case, play a couple hours, get paid and go to the house. YMMV, of course.

George Kimery wrote:I'm with Kevin, on E9th, all you need is the standard 3 floor pedals and raise and lower the E's. If you want a 3rd pedal, then add the 2nd string D#/C# lower. Don't make a complicated instrument even more complicated. Less is more.

More levers and pedals doesn't make the instrument more complicated. What makes it complicated is the inability of the player to understand what the additional changes are good for. If you don''t understand the changes, then they are a waste to you (using "YOU" as a generic you, not a specific person).

Last year I moved from a D10 with 9 pedals and 9 levers to an SD12 with 3 and 4 . Some nights I used every one of those 9p/9k, depending on the band. I am trying to go back to basics with an ext E9. I''m already to add a vertical lever and possibly a 4th pedal. I may even turn it into a universal.My E9 on my D10 has 4 pedals and 6 levers.

There''s no reason for anyone to question anyone with lots of pedals and levers, or question anyone who wants the basic 3 and 4. It serves no purpose.

The path to success on the instrument is not more pedals and levers, it's gaining control over the bar, intonation, timing and phrasing, and right hand technique.

Knowing more licks is meaningless if they are not well executed. I'd much rather listen to a steel player who plays cleanly and well in tune, than someone who knows a million licks and can't execute any of them well.

Having more pedals and levers won't slow down your progress, unless it distracts you from what's really important. Conversely, more knee levers and pedals does nothing to accelerate one's progress on the instrument.

well we went from a simple question where the answer is NO to this is all you need. That was not the question.

Way too much generalization going on.

In all fairness and respect saying that X amount of PEDS or levers is enough for anyone is quite astounding. Maybe it is for some, maybe it is NOT for others.


How about if you want to play in redundant fret board positions up and down the fret board rather than just across ?

How about if you want the phrase without A or B ped but it falls directly with the use of a specific lever in a relative fret position ?

I would also suggest that many players do not find this Instrument complicated. Odd, even clumsy in the early stages, but not complicated.

Piano and Guitar players use both hands and all fingers, they don't limit themselves to
this is all I need, well wait , some do .

For many players, 2 pedals is a struggle but on the other side of the coin is many players are indeed looking to extend the options beyond what they have. In the case of a Steel guitar where we may be limited due to mechanical restrictions , LESS is NOT More. This is why this Instrument grew from an early standard of 3+1 to a 3+5.

way too much generalization.

Somehow equating levers to hot licks is like telling a guitar player or a keyboard player that they do not need to use all of their fingers.

Having additional levers has nothing to do with bar control , how smooth we may play , intonation or any of those factors, they are unrelated.