If you could only have one

[Gary Watkins]

Which would you get if you could only have one?

[Donny Hinson]

For me, the Nashville 112 would just not have enough power. Once I dialed in my preferred tone settings, the amps total available power would likely be cut in half. Trying to play a medium-to-large gig with less than 100 watts just doesn't work...for me, anyway.

[Gary Watkins]

For me, the Nashville 112 would just not have enough power. Once I dialed in my preferred tone settings, the amps total available power would likely be cut in half. Trying to play a medium-to-large gig with less than 100 watts just doesn't work...for me, anyway.

Thanks Donny, that is what I am trying to figure out.

[Tony Prior]

The 400. If you could only have ONE, you grab the one that can cover all scenarios. It's not about weight, it's about productivity.

[Jack Stoner]

NV112 over a NV400. I've owned both and "tolerated" the NV400 but liked the 112. I don't play lead guitar or anywhere that would require the higher power of a NV400.

[Stefan Robertson]

For me, the Nashville 112 would just not have enough power. Once I dialed in my preferred tone settings, the amps total available power would likely be cut in half. Trying to play a medium-to-large gig with less than 100 watts just doesn't work...for me, anyway.

Is this really still the case. I've been to some pretty rubbish PA setups at festivals and clubs but pretty much every Audio Engineer worth a grain of salt knows to mic a speaker so realistically 40w is all that I have ever needed. It all comes through the monitors anyway.

[Dave Mudgett]

For clean pedal steel, 70s Session/LTD 400. By far. I just prefer the sound, I've had them all.

Not sure if this is exactly what Donny is driving at. But my take is that if one sets the EQ for a full-range response with a solid bass, that bass sucks a lot of the available power and leaves less power than one might think for the remaining program content. Add to that the fact that most pedal steel players back off the volume pedal to leave headroom to sustain phrases, which again gives less usable volume than one might think.

[Gary Watkins]

Not sure if this is exactly what Donny is driving at. But my take is that if one sets the EQ for a full-range response with a solid bass, that bass sucks a lot of the available power and leaves less power than one might think for the remaining program content.

Right, and burning off sub-harmonics as heat in the amp's power stage, is not good use of available power.

From the Peavey Manual…
The Low EQ Control is capable of more than 15 dB of boost or cut and you should be aware that each 3 dB of boost doubles the amount of power necessary to produce the desired amount of low end.

Ideally all amps for steel should be equipped with an adjustable high-order (very sharp) "rumble" filter, to cut off all below the lowest fundamental note/frequency the instrument can produce. Would leave lots more power available for what we can actually hear as intelligible tones, and in effect make the bass-notes above the cut-off frequency sound both clearer and louder.

Lowest fundamental note for an S10 E9 (with "Franklin" pedal) is 110Hz ="A". An S12 Uni can go one octave lower, to 55Hz="A". Amplification of lower frequencies (sub-harmonics, beats and "rumble") will only result in wasted energy and muddy sound.

This is one reason that I like this forum so much! I learn so much on here and I am proud to be a member of this "family". Now, I want all of my "family" members to remember me in their wills when they die, LOL.

[Dave Mudgett]

Right, and burning off sub-harmonics as heat in the amp's power stage, is not good use of available power. ... Lowest fundamental note for an S10 E9 (with "Franklin" pedal) is 110Hz ="A". An S12 Uni can go one octave lower, to 55Hz="A".

I don't think you have to adjust the EQ radically towards the bass end to push things pretty hard for some steel players. Some players like more bass than others. Depending on the situation, I like enough to "firm up" the sound. I wasn't talking about enough to exaggerate subharmonics.

Standard 10-string E9 is not taxing. But as you point out, C6 (with its boo-wah pedal going down from low C to A=55Hz) and a comparable universal (with its boo-wah going down from low B to Ab=52Hz ) go down pretty low. I don't think that requires subharmonics to tax anything but a pretty stout amp.

I think pedal steel is a very full-range instrument and needs a pretty full-range amp to really reproduce what it's putting out. Now, not everyone wants to "fully" reproduce what's coming out. For example, think of the Ampeg SVT amp, with its 8 10" drivers in that crazy refrigerator cabinet. It did not attempt to reproduce everything clinically all the way down. But it's not everybody's sound - a lot of bass players want to feel the fundamental all the way down on a 5-string bass, and use 15" or even 18" speakers to get there.

[George Kimery]

I have had both, actually two 112's, as well as the 400 ltd, 1000, and Session 500. None of them did it for
me, but if I had to choose between the 112 and 400, I would choose the 112.

Currently in my stall are Steelaire, Boss Katana, and Carvin BX-500, all being used with an Emmence PF-350 speaker. You are more than welcome to come down and
and give them a test drive.I am going to add a Stereo Steel to the herd before long.

[Gary Watkins]

I have had both, actually two 112's, as well as the 400 ltd, 1000, and Session 500. None of them did it for
me, but if I had to choose between the 112 and 400, I would choose the 112.

Currently in my stall are Steelaire, Boss Katana, and Carvin BX-500, all being used with an Emmence PF-350 speaker. You are more than welcome to come down and
and give them a test drive.I am going to add a Stereo Steel to the herd before long.

Thanks George. I may just come to see you.

[Donny Hinson]

Once I dialed in my preferred tone settings, the amps total available power would likely be cut in half.

As such a statement can be misinterpreted by some, I have to ask how that can happen. Available power is determined by an amp's power stage alone – goes for all amps, and doesn't change with eq-setting used.

I'm happy to oblige, Georg. Maximum audio output power from an amplifier is obtainable only with the proper amount of drive. As the tone or EQ networks of many amps are passive (read: subtractive), the lower the bass, mid, and treble controls are set, the less the amount of audio output that is available from the output stage. With some amps, like a Twin Reverb, there is little or no output at all with the tone controls turned all the way down. Compounding this problem is the fact that the lower (bass) notes take far more power to reproduce than notes in the mid an high ranges. Guitar players are usually happy with 50-75 watts, while bass players often use amps with hundreds of watts.

As to miking the instruments, if it's possible, I would always prefer to hear music where everything isn't all jammed through the same set of speakers. Indeed, most if the best and most memorable music I've heard, sound-wise, has been from either acoustic bands, or from small combos in venues that do not require humongous sound systems - venues where i can get that "up close and personal" feeling with the performers. IMHO, there is nothing like listening to a small jazz combo or an acoustic group from 10-15 feet away. And perhaps, for me, this preference has come from decades of doing just that.