Tricone repair

Josei Alfonsi · Post by **Josei Alfonsi** » 21 May 2018 11:19 am

I recently purchased a tricone guitar that has a crack between the body and the top under the tail piece. Im not sure the gauge of strings currently on it but they are pretty heavy. I don't know if that is the cause of the damage or not. Has anyone ever had any repairs done to a tricone before? would soldering/welding the crack change the tone of the guitar? also what gauge strings would be recommended for c6?

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 21 May 2018 12:26 pm

If it was mine I'd get my money back.

David Matzenik · Post by **David Matzenik** » 21 May 2018 12:51 pm

I would guess it has been dropped on its end. National in California used to do repairs. They can probably direct you to a repairman.

Josei Alfonsi · Post by **Josei Alfonsi** » 21 May 2018 1:17 pm

Thanks David, Ill try and reach out to them and see what they say. id like to get some different gauge strings on it to see how it holds up.

Ben Elder · Post by **Ben Elder** » 21 May 2018 2:55 pm

That looks like one of John Morton's and it's well worth whatever it takes to fix. He does some fabulous stuff.

Also, about ten years ago, Don Young & the National Reso-Phonic crew fixed up a seam separation on my 1927 tricone, then restored the metal to a What!-This-isn't-New?! shine. Their work:

Josei Alfonsi · Post by **Josei Alfonsi** » 21 May 2018 3:03 pm

Ben, I did a bunch of searching after I purchased it to find the maker and I did find a picture of the guitar on his website. I reached out to see if he would do a repair but haven't heard back. I have it tuned down an octive in c6 and it sounds great. I have a bunch of emails out to people ive found on the internet who do repairs, just waiting for a reply. hoping it wont end up being too expensive as the shipping alone will probably be pretty hefty. this guitars got some weight to it.

Nic Neufeld · Post by **Nic Neufeld** » 21 May 2018 4:49 pm

I quite like the design, aesthetically...pays tribute to the original tricones but a very original design nonetheless. Had never seen one before...shame about the damage.

I hope to get a (medium-lower shelf) tricone soon and I'm not sure whether I should tune to C6 (which I am used to) or G6 to get more of a fuller sound out of it, but I guess experimenting is part of the fun...

But yes, love that guitar's look, hope you get it back running full steam. I play sitar, and the main resonating chamber is a large dried gourd/pumpkin...unsurprisingly, them breaking is not common, but the lore is that it usually sounds better after breaking and being expertly repaired (mine was, before it got to me, and it sounds quite nice) so hopefully the same is the case for your guitar!

David Ball · Post by **David Ball** » 21 May 2018 4:51 pm

I had Don Young and company re-solder some seams on my 1927 tricone too, and as with Ben's, it came out great.

Resoldering these things isn't a really big deal if it's done right. And actually, the solder seams shouldn't really be bearing much if any structural load on the guitar. The tailpiece to neck stress is pretty well covered by the wooden support inside the guitar under the soundwell. The vertical load is covered by the dowel/pad supports under the soundwell.

It could well be that what you've got going on isn't a big deal as it is as long as the string gauges are appropriate for the guitar. I leave my '27 strung up in Hawaiian low G tuning and use regular six string guitar medium gauge strings. I never had problems even with the previous open seams in my guitar. I string it lighter than I would a Dobro, but not that much lighter.

John Morton's tricones are really cool.

Dave

Michael Maddex · Post by **Michael Maddex** » 21 May 2018 7:11 pm

Josei, before shipping the Guitar off for repair, you might want to visit a couple of local Machine Shops and (Automotive) Radiator Repair Shops and see if anyone local wants to take on the job. Either type of Shop might well have a seasoned Solder Master. BTW, great looking Tricone! Good Luck.

John Morton · Post by **John Morton** » 21 May 2018 7:20 pm

That's one of mine. Can't find anything in my mail from you - try the contact form at my website, which is:
http://www.jmorton.us/index.html

It does look as though it suffered an impact to the endpin area. String tension did not cause this. The guitar should take any string set you care to put on it. There's a piece of 3/4"x 2" channel mounted under the fingerboard, but the neck tube is stiff and strong by itself. These Weissenborn-shaped lap guitars don't have a neck stick, they're totally hollow.

As to repairs, I have never soldered up a guitar that was already plated. (I have also never talked this over with folks who say they have done this.) However since solder doesn't adhere to nickel I would say the plating would have to be ground off to solder the crack. The plating shops tell me they can't replate a guitar without electrically stripping it, which tends to attack some places more than others, and leaves a matte texture which can't be polished to a mirror surface.

My repair strategy for this would be to make a right-angle bracket to mount under the tailpiece. This could be either inside the body or outside under the tailpiece, attached with screws through the end and top surfaces. The repair bracket would be hidden by the tailpiece.

I hope you can get this thing running, these 7 strings are wonderful.
John

Josei Alfonsi · Post by **Josei Alfonsi** » 21 May 2018 10:52 pm

Thanks for all the ideas. I did reach out to a machine shop. Iâ€™m going to take the guitar to him one day so he can get a better idea if he can repair it or not.

John,
I used the contact form on your site. Thereâ€™s a high probability I didnâ€™t hit send after I typed my message. Thank you for your advice. im Not much of a metal guy so I had no idea where to start. One of the screws for the cover under the tail piece was missing, Iâ€™m not sure if that was from the damage or the fact they couldnâ€™t get the screw in with the tail piece installed. I ended up using some real thin double sided tape to hold the wood block up so I could screw in the tail piece after screwing down the plate. The screw under the tail piece seemed to help support the tail piece when I brought the tension up on the strings. Itâ€™s a beautiful guitar and sounds great. All of my steels seem to have some character and needed some love. Im more for the sound and playability of an instrument instead of how good it looks. I know you must have put in a lot of time into this so I hope to get it fixed up right.

John Morton · Post by **John Morton** » 22 May 2018 7:33 am

Thanks Josei, I'm glad this guitar is in good hands. Guitar repair people shy away from dealing with metal, which has the advantage of having much better strength and stiffness than wood. A machinist or sheet metal guy should be able to reinforce that area with a hidden angle bracket. I would suggest not bothering with mending the crack, if both sides are fastened to the bracket with screws.

I consulted this board when I needed a string set for an 8-string version. I was interested to learn that the interval across all 8 strings is often narrower than the 2 octaves of the 6 string guitar tuning. The extras are not the highest or lowest, but may be used to add a minor third or dominant 7th, hidden in the low or middle positions for use as needed. The bottom string is often reentrant, i.e. higher pitch than the next one.

I shouldn't be saying all this, there are great experts on this board, and I'm just a machinist/clarinet player!

Josei Alfonsi · Post by **Josei Alfonsi** » 22 May 2018 9:54 am

John,
Feel free to share your knowledge when ever you want. Im sure your knowledge far surpasses mine and im always willing to learn. Im just an I.T guy with an addiction of buying instruments looking to make some noise. I appreciate all your help.

Josei Alfonsi · Post by **Josei Alfonsi** » 22 May 2018 10:14 am

Ben,
didnt see the pictures before. That is a beautiful guitar!

Josei Alfonsi · Post by **Josei Alfonsi** » 24 May 2018 10:10 am

I wanted to thank everyone for their help and advice. I got some new strings and tuned her up and everything plays nicely. I went a little to big on the 7th string so have a low floppy Bb. I suppose I should have gone with the high G and Bb on the bottom, I may stop by the music store again and buy a few different gauges til I find the right size. but for now at least I can play it and it sounds great.

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 28 May 2018 6:45 am

Iâ€™ve heard that a good brass musical instrument repairperson can fix most things on metal National style guitars.