The Steel Guitar Forum

Kyle at MSA asked me yesterday if I wanted my pedals to start at the 0 position or at the 1 position. I gotta say, I had no idea what he was talking about. I'm assuming that he wanted to know if I wanted CBA (day set up) to start on the first or second pedal. - any insight would be much appreciated.

To answer that properly, we should know how many total pedals your guitar will have. However, unless you have more than 8 pedals, it's customary to start at -1 instead of -0-.

I have been thinking the A pedal should start at the B pedal position on some guitars to make it a bit easier and more comfortable.

Both my new Excel and the ancient pull-release I once owned have space on the rack for nine pedals but just eight fitted, so that choice has always been there for those who don't need nine.

With a keyless you're probably going to use that first position.

9 Pedals. I'm thinking 4 on the E9 side but, I left it to them to set it up in the way that made the most sense - they would know a lot more about that than me. I'll learn to play what they set up. I'm just trying to understand the way players look at it. Thanks for the responses.

I have never used four E9 pedals but the choice is between putting the extra one in 1st or 4th position. In the former case, the pedals are often then numbered from 0 instead of 1, so that ABC (or CBA) are still 123.

Bobby Nelson wrote:Kyle at MSA asked me yesterday if I wanted my pedals to start at the 0 position or at the 1 position. I gotta say, I had no idea what he was talking about. I'm assuming that he wanted to know if I wanted CBA (day set up) to start on the first or second pedal. - any insight would be much appreciated.

I believe a zero pedal would be a fourth E9 pedal such as the one with the “Franklin drop” placed in the A pedal’s place thereby sliding the rest of the pedals to the right one space. This does make using the A pedal easier on some steels (my pre RP could sure use this setup) or the zero pedal can be placed in the 4th pedal’s position on a D10 or added as a 4th pedal to a single neck.

What's important is the comfort ability to use your knee levers in conjunction with AB pedals. If you have AB too far to the left(assuming Emmons set up) you can have trouble using all pedal/knee lever combinations.MD

Now that you have a minimal amount of information, I'd go back and talk to the the guy at MSA (Kyle).
I'd try to find out why he asked.
Things to consider in your conversation with him:

1) Are you ordering a Franklin pedal?
A lot of guys prefer this as being the "first" pedal.
Notice I said "first", and not 0 or 1.

2) How many other pedals are on the guitar?

3) How big of a guy are you?
5'0""?
6'6"?

4) Based upon his manufacturing experience, how does the average guy ordering a guitar do it?

Once you both have all of the information, between the two of you you should be able to make an informed decision.

Bobby,

MSA's have the ability to mount 10 pedals. If you skip the first spot, and use the remaining 9, the 9th pedal is very close to the volume pedal. I had a Millie that was set up that way, and I would never have been able to play it. But I only use 8 pedals, so I just removed the 9th. So, if I number them from Keyhead to changer as 1-10, I have 1 and 10 unused, and use the middle 8. I would recommend this for most players, but C6 does get a little crowded, ie, my legs are close together. I have a Franklin at 2, then A,B,C, then 4 pedals for C6.

If you play a keyless guitar as well, you would probably skip the first spot to more closely match the position you would use on a keyless.

If you either play a guitar that has the first pedal way left under the keyhead, and are use to that and like it or if you have really long legs, then you might want to start at the first spot, and leave the empty space next to the volume pedal. This would certainly make playing C6 a little more comfortable, I think, but I have short legs.

Some measurements from my Millie (I believe the Legends are very similar in size and setup): For pedal 2 (of the 10 possible positions), it is centered approx. 1" left (under the keyhead vs. under the fretboard) from the roller nut. Pedal spacing is approx 2 1/2" center to center, so if you started far left, the first pedal would be about 3 1/2" left of the roller nut. You can compare that to your current guitar, and sit there and mash real and maybe imagined pedals, and see what feels "right" to you.

When I bought a second used Millie and was having MSA set it up for me, I debated this very topic a good bit - after all, it is a Franklin pedal in the first spot. But since my other guitar was set up this way (2-9), it was certainly easier to match it than to either have them different, or have to go back and change the first guitar.

If I were using 9 pedals, I would mount them as far left as possible. However, the person I bought the Millie with 9 pedals got a new Legend, and forgot to tell them to skip the first position, and said he preferred them to the right. So obviously, it is a matter of opinion, but hopefully the above info might help you find the right configuration for yourself.

On MSA 0 pedal is farthest to the left.

On my Carter S12 Universal too !

When I received my Sierra, I moved everything right one pedal. Did I move off 0 to get to 1, are did I move from #1 to #2 for the first pedal.

In my mind, Zero (0) is nothing, nada, zip, zilch. So there is no location that is ZERO. I guess I moved from position #1, to position #2. for my Day setup.

I've had to move pedals and levers inwards for comfort. Ergonomics are important when playing steel. It has to fit your body. I've never been comfortable with the left-most pedal in the 0 or even the 1 position. I'm short, and it's a stretch.

Thanks for all the great insights fellas. I've been dealing with broken down trucks and rental cars and the like, and haven't had a chance to read them all yet, but have skimmed a few and am starting to get it. Thanks again.

Charley Bond wrote:In my mind, Zero (0) is nothing.

That's fair, but mathematicians are happy to number things from zero (or any other number for that matter) and in the case of the pedal steel it's a way of labelling an extra 4th pedal at the left-hand end without having to rename the others, that's all.

All our computers work by counting from zero.

I prefer the A pedal on an Emmons setup about where the nut is.
An extra pedal to the left on my guitar. I guess you`d call that the zero pedal

Yup! If you can't deal with the pedal "O" terminology
there's always pedal -1

Thanks again fellas. I'm with Bob and Douglas with the short legs. So, I asked him to start in the 0 position - which, I suppose, will be whatever that 4th pedal is.