The Steel Guitar Forum

This is sort of a follow-up to a previous post on band volumes. Our group seriously attempts to keep our overall volume at a "comfortable" level, mainly out of respect for the audience. We played a local country-themed "hot spot" last year and the club sound man had the gain so high that it was impossible to hear anything. Having seen acts major and minor at local venues, this seems to be the accepted practice now. Absolutely ear-splitting volume when it is so unnecessary, asinine and unhealthy. Why??

Yip it’s a known problem and disease. Two common suspects are off the stage volume and front of house volume
The first thing to do is get everything plugged direct and get all those amps and rumble off the bandstand.
Secondly: Get that sound man under control.

It’s a complement to be asked to turn up, But it’s hard to recover a room when you’ve been asked to turn down!

It seems certain sound men really like to crank the bass up. Perhaps the dancers like that, but this old man is really bothered by it.

Why? Well, in case you don't know it, disco morphed into line dancing, and the dancers of both must "FEEL" the beat to follow the music. (IOW, they're too busy dancing to listen.)

GaryL wrote: Our group seriously attempts to keep our overall volume at a "comfortable" level, mainly out of respect for the audience.

Exactly what level is that? Say, in terms of db SPL at 1 meter in front of the stage. I think we need an actual MEASUREMENT for this discussion to be objective.

The only measurement i need is, if the waitress screams in my ear to take my order, or folks are walking out of the place holding their ears...then you're too damn loud.

AMEN George!!!

Steve, you are correct about using a sound meter. I have toyed with getting one, for a baseline. But, when I leave a venue and can't hear for the next two days, I know it just ain't healthy. Having played in various bands for years as well as a career in machining/milling/manufacturing for over 30 years, we could not have legally gotten away with sound levels that high. Meter or no meter.

GaryL wrote:Steve, you are correct about using a sound meter. I have toyed with getting one, for a baseline. But, when I leave a venue and can't hear for the next two days, I know it just ain't healthy. Having played in various bands for years as well as a career in machining/milling/manufacturing for over 30 years, we could not have legally gotten away with sound levels that high. Meter or no meter.

This is the first time I have seen anyone mention legal limits in any of the many recent volume-oriented discussions. It is an interesting point, and one that club employees might explore to protect their health.
https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standard ... 1983-05-01

Excessive volume is the reason my wife and I quiet frequenting clubs etc.
Everything is always so loud you can't talk to the person next to you.
It was irritating and almost painful.
I asked at one club if they could turn it down a bit.
He went over and turned it up.
I love music.
I love being able to hear more.

There is a consensus among certain musicians that the new types of PA amps and speakers are painful to the ears.
Sometimes I’ll hear a solo singer guitarist, and his digital PA is so harsh I can’t stay for long. These light little PA systems (class D or whatever) are not kind to the ears,

Ive read some artists have talking about going back to old style amplification. The problem is it takes a whole truck full of Crown 300s to equal what someone can hand carry into the gig. Nobody can afford the expense of hauling that old gear around. The new stuff is light and cheap.

The typical PA systems nowadays have 10 times the wattage. It’s digital. And yes, it is too loud.
The thing that is worse...on the breaks, cranking MP3s through that loud system. Insult to injury for your ears.

Old fart.
John

SPL meters are cheap - you can find them for under $50. I had one in my gear bag for decades, mainly for use when someone expected un-miked acoustic volume from an electric band AND we were responsible for the house sound.

IMO if there's a house sound system and operator the band should only be concerned with setting stage output levels that facilitate the sound person getting the desired mix - not control the house sound level.

Unless the band is asked to man the mixing board (or brought the sound system) they shouldn't be concerned or involved with the "house" sound mix and levels at all unless asked. In a situation like that the band isn't being paid to "mix".

I've worked both ends hundreds of times. When playing and the band not involved with mixing I didn't care whether the volume level was low or high as long as we could get decent sound on stage. Not my concern.

And when working a house system the only thing I [wanted to hear from the band was initial discussion when setting stage levels and feedback regarding monitor levels and mix. I surely did not tell them how to play and did not appreciate them telling me how to mix in "my" venue.

Again, if the band is asked to supply the sound system or someone to mix then it's a different ballgame - but if the "house" has their own system and staff the band should not get involved.

That's my take on the subject.

The volume debate goes on. There are two sides to it and I "get" or appreciate both of them.

Sometimes the volume is just plain stupid-high.

And sometimes the biggest complainers in the audience are those who think a band's volume should be no more than their tabletop radio back home.

Folks, there is a Casino in northern Arizona, (played there with different groups)they have a sound meter so to speak.
If you play over 80 disciples, you'll receive a warning.
If you go over the limit twice your FIRED on the spot, and an Indian band will finish the night.
Their real serious about it.

We have a sound man that carries a dB Meter. We rarely go over 72dB's. Mostly in the 70 dB range. We place places that if you go over 80 dB outside the beer garden the police will warn you and then shut you down. Everything is miked so he can control the sound out front. We have had guests that we have to tell to turn down.
FYI: a vacuum cleaner is 70 dB. A car passing at 65 mph from 25 feet is 76dB.
I will say it pays to be aware that you are not too loud. We get lots of good paying jobs because we control the volume.

Roy Carroll wrote:We have had guests that we have to tell to turn down.

Oh man...lol
You know how many times I’ve wanted to tell Some Screamin’ Loud Drunken Fool at that table over there to shut the heck up? I know that is probably not what you meant, but it’s the first thing I thought.

Here are some free cell phone apps for measuring sound level:
https://www.healthyhearing.com/report/4 ... ise-levels
Let's put some numbers to "what is too loud?"

Steve,

Thanks! I'll give those a try.

I’ve been using ear plugs on gigs for a long time but switched to in ear monitors a few years ago. If I go to hear a band I use ear plugs, you can hear everything you need to, even someone talking beside you.

When I was handling the sound for the ISGC and several other steel shows, I ALWAYS had my Goldline Model 30 Analyzer (SPL meter) connected and the microphone was set in the middle of the room, just slightly off center.

Yeah, it would peak at 90-95 ocassionally (Herby Wallace) but I tried my best to keep the room level around 85-90, remembering that the size of room was huge.

Now I would sometimes have a steel player get on stage and I would have to take him out of the sound system because he played his amp so loud. But those were few and far between.

Today (and we have this problem at church) with all the digital equipment, sound men are busy playing on their phones and just looking at a screen to check the volume levels AND whether it even sounds good. If their computers say the sound is ok, then they think the sound is ok.
Sound men today are not sound men, they are button pushers and have absolutely NO EAR for sound. Heck most of the time we can't even understand what the pastor is saying, it is so muffled or lost in the SUB Woofers.

I remember 2 1/2 years ago when Hartley Peavey called me to come over and listen to the new Peavey Session 115 and the reissue of the Nashville 112.
While being great amps the tone sucked on both.
Hartley said that is why he called me, because of my sound experience with steel guitar.
He explained that he has some of the finest engineers in the world but they are lacking one major thing: EARS.

Nuff said

Bill Ferguson wrote:When I was handling the sound for the ISGC and several other steel shows, I ALWAYS had my Goldline Model 30 Analyzer (SPL meter) connected and the microphone was set in the middle of the room, just slightly off center.
Yeah, it would peak at 90-95 ocassionally (Herby Wallace) but I tried my best to keep the room level around 85-90, remembering that the size of room was huge.

About how many feet was the microphone away from the band?

Let's see, our snake was 100' and the test mic was set about 2/3 out, so about 60'.

There is a club in my hometown that is the last big honkytonk gig around here. I get calls to play with the groups coming through, but have started turning the gigs down. I am getting old I guess. I want to still hear for a few years. We never played at those volumes through the 80's and 90's. Not sure what changed, but it sure has changed...

Bill Ferguson wrote:Let's see, our snake was 100' and the test mic was set about 2/3 out, so about 60'.

OK. That would make, according to my calculations, about 93 to 98 db SPL at the front. Very reasonable level, methinks. Not too loud, but enough to hear well.

A few years ago, a nice local venue tried an opening after years of inactivity. Unfortunately, the band did a practice afternoon so loud that the police shut the place down permanently and never to reopen. This is sad commentary for stupidity. There were some tickets sold for the evening sets but the new promoters were forced to refund money for all the presold tickets. There has never been another such venue in the locality.