Anyone w/ experience with "Radius Clauses" in contracts?

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 3 Mar 2018 12:00 pm

Probably applies more to touring acts doing theater shows but a radius clause says your band can't perform for so many days prior to or after your appearance at their venue, for a radius of so many miles around their venue...

Anyone have experience with this and can share what typical values are for the time and radius?

Thanks in advance.

Brett Robinson · Post by **Brett Robinson** » 3 Mar 2018 12:08 pm

Mr. Cohen, my band has dealt with radius clauses for a decade while touring. Like anything, those terms are negotiable. The point is to set a radius that puts a competing show outside the range an artist can draw from. I imagine the better and further you draw, the bigger that radius is. It's especially annoying up near you, where the major markets are relatively close. While I'm not positive about timeframes, a 200-mile radius has come up quite a few times over the years. We have booking agents and management that handle all that, however, I'm certain that 200 mile mark has come up in conversation. But like I said, everything is up for negotiating and if losing people to another city is their concern your argument could just be that you won't draw outside of X amount of miles from their venue.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 3 Mar 2018 12:12 pm

Thanks, Brett. Of course the two figures work together. In other words, one might not be too worried about a 200 mile radius if it's only for 2 weeks before and after, but if it's for 2 months, then that same 200 miles could be much too big. Can you tell me what durations you've faced with the radius?

Thanks.

Andy Vance · Post by **Andy Vance** » 3 Mar 2018 5:24 pm

Jim,

My band routinely has radius clauses in our casino contracts. I've seen both 30 day and 90 day timeframes in our contracts.

We actually chose not to book one casino due to their radius clause as there were two other casinos within the radius that we also played at.

Andy

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 3 Mar 2018 5:26 pm

Thanks, Andy. Did the other two casinos not have radius clauses in their contracts? And how big a radius were they asking? Thanks.

Steven Cherson · Post by **Steven Cherson** » 4 Mar 2018 4:04 am

Jim,

My experience with booking Bill Kirchen. The east coast has many venues that overlap within a 50 mile radius, so its not uncommon to have a 60 day prior and 30 day after the show. Some venues are OK with adding shows within that time line if the show sells out. There are venues we play that have a 180/60 window as the market is congested (NYC, Phil., VA./Wash, Ct, Mass.)

Festivals tend to have a larger radius, as a lot of time goes into putting these together and they want the headliners to draw from a larger area. The largest radius I have experienced is a festival in Colorado that had a 200 mile radius.

Some venues have clauses that don't allow advertising for shows in the same market until after the show plays or sells out.

if you have a potential venue thats within the radius or playing window contact the booker some will be OK with it as that market may have no impact on ticket sales.

Hope this helps, Steve

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 4 Mar 2018 5:07 am

Yes, Steve, it does. Thank you.

Andy Vance · Post by **Andy Vance** » 4 Mar 2018 5:26 pm

Jim,

In this case, all of the casinos had radius clauses but each was different. The casino we chose not to book was 75 miles and 30 days before and after. That happened to overlap two other rooms that we booked in. Most casinos are far enough away from each other up here that they rarely overlap and are under the radius clause.

Andy

Russ Wever · Post by **Russ Wever** » 4 Mar 2018 5:52 pm

Jim . .
I was in a group that had a
Hypotenuse Clause . .
it was a Trio !
~Rw

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 4 Mar 2018 5:55 pm

Thanks, Andy.

As for YOU, Mister Wever...

Clyde Mattocks · Post by **Clyde Mattocks** » 4 Mar 2018 5:56 pm

Our band always imposed a 30-30 rule on ourselves. No gigs closer than 30 miles for 30 days. Just seemed to be good business. Didn't apply to private events.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 4 Mar 2018 5:59 pm

Clyde Mattocks wrote:Our band always imposed a 30-30 rule on ourselves. No gigs closer than 30 miles for 30 days. Just seemed to be good business. Didn't apply to private events.

Thanks, Clyde. Did that mean 30 days before and 30 days after the gig? Or 15 + 15?

Glenn Suchan · Post by **Glenn Suchan** » 5 Mar 2018 11:25 am

The problem with radius clauses are that there is no standard criteria. Each venue can arbitrarily dictate the number of restricted days and the mileage radius.

I would say that radius clauses are less likely to effect touring bands simply because, generally-speaking, touring bands will be playing in venues that are a greater distance apart than most radius clauses dictate. Also, radius clauses are likely associated with sole-owner bars and nightclubs. Most corporate venues are spaced far enough apart so that touring acts can be booked into their locations on consecutive nights and not effect the band-generated sales of the venues.

As someone in this thread has said, radius clauses can be negotiated. Depending on how in demand (read that popular) the band is will determine the severity of the clause. I very popular band (one that will draw a lot of ticket sales and/or keep the booze flowing) will likely be exempt from a radius clause.

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 5 Mar 2018 11:59 am

Thanks, Glenn.

Jim Fogarty · Post by **Jim Fogarty** » 5 Mar 2018 2:43 pm

It's the venue/promoter that sets them, and some are more strict than others. If I remember correctly, Ardmore Music Hall and the company that books that venue and others in the area prefer a 90/90.

In actual experience, for local acts, they've asked that you abide by the 90 days ahead of time, then don't ANNOUNCE your next gig until after your show.

Seems reasonable to me. In my experience, most local original and "show" bands (not bar/covers band, IOW) play too often in their home market.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 5 Mar 2018 8:16 pm

It's basically a "non-compete" clause, protecting the investment of the purchaser from competitive advertising that would dilute the value of the attraction in their venue. As with all contractual stuff, all the details are arbitrary and negotiable.

Clyde Mattocks · Post by **Clyde Mattocks** » 5 Mar 2018 8:28 pm

JIm. That was 30 before or after. We were working a three state area.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 5 Mar 2018 8:52 pm

Jim Fogarty wrote:In actual experience, for local acts, they've asked that you abide by the 90 days ahead of time, then don't ANNOUNCE your next gig until after your show.

It's one thing for us to not announce our next gig until the prior one has completed, but the venue will have announced it (some publish their lineups for a year in advance, or if it's a festival, the entire festival lineup will be announced), unless we try to prevent them from doing so. But maybe the clause only applies to the artist promoting the show actively and not the presenter's own promotion?

Jim Fogarty · Post by **Jim Fogarty** » 5 Mar 2018 9:16 pm

I think it's really gonna end up being the discretion of the venue booking you. Steven, below, pretty much nailed it.

But if it's another venue or festival that books and promotes that far out, I doubt the 2nd venue will want to book you within their standard time/distance anyway. ie, playing the folk festival 2 weeks after Sellersville.

In my experience, it's better to have a conversation with the buyer, rather than try and sneak a date in without them knowing. I've never had a situation where they argued with a fair exception.

Steven Cherson · Post by **Steven Cherson** » 6 Mar 2018 2:58 am

Jim,

Are you looking to go on the road for a week or more, book consecutive weekends (thursday-Sunday) and how far are you looking to travel with the band?

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 6 Mar 2018 6:05 am

Probably mostly consecutive weekends and travel will be nationally. Even internationally, should the opportunity arise and the financials make sense.

Steven Cherson · Post by **Steven Cherson** » 6 Mar 2018 6:44 am

You should be able to book without radius issues examples would be,

Sellersville Theatre -> Joeâ€™s Pub, NYC -> Darylâ€™s House, Pawling, NY

Birchmere, Alexandria,VA. -> Rams Head, Annapolis, MD -> Tin Pan, Richmond, Va.

The Ark, Ann Arbor, Mi -> Beachland Ballroom, Cleveland, OH. -> Rex Theatre, Pittsburgh, PA

Steven Cherson · Post by **Steven Cherson** » 6 Mar 2018 6:48 am

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Steven Cherson · Post by **Steven Cherson** » 6 Mar 2018 6:52 am

Jim, Try this website lots of good info and contacts for venues.

www.indieonthemove.com

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 6 Mar 2018 12:57 pm

Steven Cherson wrote:You should be able to book without radius issues examples would be,

Sellersville Theatre -> Joeâ€™s Pub, NYC -> Darylâ€™s House, Pawling, NY

Birchmere, Alexandria,VA. -> Rams Head, Annapolis, MD -> Tin Pan, Richmond, Va.

The Ark, Ann Arbor, Mi -> Beachland Ballroom, Cleveland, OH. -> Rex Theatre, Pittsburgh, PA

Thanks, Steve. Yes we're looking into most of those. But most of them want to see that we have established a following at home. And that's the rub: the venues at home don't want us to play too close to each other, too soon. Catch 22!