The Steel Guitar Forum

How many of ya'll have this change?
I have F# to G-G# on 1st string, but have never had the F# to G on the 7th string.
If you didn't have this change, would you add it?

Terry

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Mullen D10 /8x5 / session 500rd/ American Strat Highway 1 model
steelin for my Lord

I have the 7th string from F# to G# yes i would change it if I didn't have it

Yes...this is a very useful change for the 7th string (changing the F# to G). This change enables you to get a very nice 7th on the "pedals down" chord.

And a lot of people don't because the same chord is available 2 frets back with the B pedal and the E to D# lever. Rocking on and of the B pedal is the same change (6th to b7) you get in the 'home' A+B position by raising the 7th string to G.

Like everything else with this wonderful instrument, it's a tradeoff. There is a limit to how many levers you can fit to one body. Of course, if your name is Buddy Cage you can fit 14 of them.

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<small>Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

yes larry... "there is a limit to how many pedals you can put on a body"... "but there is no limit to what you can do with one body"...
that is what makes this musical instrument, the "pedal steel guitar" so wonderful... so unique...
carlos

I have that change & I use it all the time.

I've had it forever. I often use it with my thumb on the 11th string (G#) for the 7#9 chord. Very bluesy.

I have that change for a year now, with both F#s to G on LKL. It's become a habit that I'm trying to change by dropping back 2 frets, as Larry said. For licks, I like working the pedal rather than a knee lever. I also get a G with a split on LKR-G#>F# with B pedal.

I'm considering a string 7 lower to F so I can get a 2 frets up ninth chord in B6 position with Es lowered (C#9).

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Mike Barone
Sho-Bud Pro-1 5&4 with RHL | Nashville 112
Assorted Guitars & Keyboards

I have it... don't use it a real lot.. once in a while as a "lick pedal" in blues stuff... I combine it with my string 5 half tone lower, on LKV... I don't use it in a 7th chord... I have enough of those on the guitar already... bob

I was thinkin about puttin it on RKL which raises my 1st string F# to G/G#, and raises my 2nd string D# to E, and also lowers my 6th string G# to F#, but I think it would make it to stiff with 4 pulls.But I can get plenty of 7ths with my current setup, so I guess I'll leave it be.

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Mullen D10 /8x5 / session 500rd/ American Strat Highway 1 model
steelin for my Lord

Adding it to the 6th string lower lever is a bad idea. You would hear dissonance ringing between the 6th and 7th strings.

A lot of fellows ad the #7 - Raise (F#) to (G) to the RKR, which Lowers - #2 (D#) to (D/C#) and #9 (D) to (C#). It works well when Lowering the (E)'s to (Eb)'s along with the (B)-pedal or with just the (A)(B) pedals engaged!

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“Big John” Bechtel
’04 SD–10 Black Derby w/3 & 5 & Pad
’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15” Eminence
web site

Couldn't do without it, plus the same on string 1.

yes..it's a can't do without for me as well..

I view this as an added note in the scale to raise to as opposed to chord construction..or as well as chord construction...

This 7th string raise is basically the same as the 6th string lower..but the logistics are you RAISE to the note on the 7th string rather than LOWERING to the note on the 6th string..

Think of a Tele player bending notes..they bend up..

Don't get caught up in the "What chord does it give me" life.. thats only one part of the equation...

Sure rendundancy exists..but use this down there in the under the 5th fret zone for open chords or scales...

This is one of those changes you grow into..just like the Bb lever..

Seat time..and experimenting with above and below scale phrases

<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 08 September 2005 at 03:22 AM.]</p></FONT>

I've had that change on my 7th string since 1972.
It's on my RKR that also lowers the 2nd string and lowers the 9th string (and also lowers the 2nd string on the C6th neck a half tone).

It's not my "most used" change but I do use it frequently and if I ever bought another guitar it would be on that guitar, too.

I have the F# to G# on a floor pedal but sometimes when playing in the B6th mode I half pedal it to G for an augmented chord as with the E's lowered the 7th string becomes the V....JH in Va.

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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!

quote *Adding it to the 6th string lower lever is a bad idea. You would hear dissonance ringing between the 6th and 7th strings.*

True b0b..
Probably why I don't use it much .. actually they don't get in each others way too much.. I only use that F# half tone up in single note runs and only rarely. I use the B-Bb change more often but never in conjunction with the 7th string.. I guess I have adapted. There is probably no good use for grouping those changes together.. I tend to use those changes seperately... and sparingly... bob

I have my Right Right Knee set up F# to G# on the first and Seventh string and the second string returning to an E note. I use this a lot but to get the G notes on the 1st and 7th string i just gauge a half pull using my ear. I get a lot of old mooney runs doing it this way. It kind of takes place of the combination where they drop the 3rd string a half tone. It is just kind of another way to get a lick and save the expence of using the 3rd string all the time.

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Thanks guys, If I add it I'll put it on RKR with D# to D-C# on 2 and D to C# on 9.

Terry

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Mullen D10 /8x5 / session 500rd/ American Strat Highway 1 model
steelin for my Lord

Terry, there is a lot of phrases you can get by raising the 7th string that you can't get going back two frets with the E/D# and B pedal. Notice I said phrases, not notes. You can duplicate notes and chords all over the neck but you can't duplicate all phrases or the way you get in and out of those notes all over the neck. The way you phrase a lick is what gives your playing its soul.. I'm not worth a "you know what" at it but I appreciate the way some of the pro's can take a simple lick that we've all played for years, use a different way of phrasing it and just knock your hat off.
Winston<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Winston Street on 08 September 2005 at 09:10 PM.]</p></FONT>

Terry-

I have a RKR which drops 2 to D/C#, and drops 9 to C# ... BUT, I have 7 going up to a G/G#. It takes some horsing around to look for the right hole/slot, but nice when you get it.

-dean-<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Dean Parks on 08 September 2005 at 09:50 PM.]</p></FONT>

Terry, where is your 1st string Raise ?

I am thinking that it is becoming more common to have the 1st , 2nd, 7th raises on the same knee.

I have these on RKL..with the 2nd lowers on RKR...along with 9 lower.

I realize it is all preference ...but there is an in family relationship with the 7, 2 and 1 full tone raise..
just my take

<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 09 September 2005 at 03:47 AM.]</p></FONT><font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 09 September 2005 at 04:40 PM.]</p></FONT>

Many have the 2nd string lower and the 9th string on the same knee lever. Many use the 9th string lower as the "feel stop" for the 2nd string half tone lower. That seems to be the most common setup for that knee lever. Obviously there are many different combinations that can and are used but that is the most common.

Same way with the first string and second string raise. My RKL raises first string a full tone, the second string a half tone and also has the sixth string lower. That seems to be a fairly common setup too and the last time I checked the Carter web site that was their "standard" setup for that knee lever.

I raise F# strings to G, but not to G#. I don't use the change often, but I do use it occasionally, and for more than just an A7 chord.

Some of you have heard me play the old 4 Seasons song "Can't Take My Eyes Off You." In it, there's a part that requires that I make the C# position, (A pedal, R knee lever) and simultaniously raise the 1st string, in order to play the melody line as a scale pattern with the notes on different strings.

Jack, what I'd give for that 1st and 2nd raise combination; it would make the first two strings make sense to me.
Really want a pro Carter now....

Enough dreaming; back to working on the left hand. And the right hand....