The Steel Guitar Forum

Howdy friends,

I'm digging into the world of Universal Audio recently and picked up a Twin Duo, and the studio space I share also has a couple Apollo rack units to cascade for a nice tracking setup... so far loving it! Great quality and design, and the plugins and software sound great and make workflow very easy....

My inquiry really lies in the world of the UA plugins though, especially when DI'ing a pedal steel for tracking or just regular woodshed (which is really nice - I live in an apartment and can't crank up an amp at home).

I'm well versed in the general use of the various plugins/flavors for standard tracking with mics, etc (and my usual choice for recording steel is my Sho~Bud -> Sarno Black Box -> Princeton Reverb w/ JBL, mic'd with a Royer ribbon and 421).

But I'm wondering if anyone else out there has dug into a cool UA plugin chain for DI'd pedal steel. I've been using the UA 610-B preamp into an 1176, into a Pultec EQ + reverb so far and it's certainly a solid tone. I've also demo'd their Neve 1073 preamp and liked that a little better than the UA 610 for steel, just wanted to try some other stuff before dropping money on it. But in general, I'm still missing a little character/warmth/touch response that would be cool to find if it's out there...

There's lots of options for UA plugins and they're not cheap (unless they're on sale, etc., which I might wait for to purchase) but they do offer demos of everything, I just don't want to waste my demos in case I need something down the line for a specific project... So I'm wondering - anyone else out there using a similar rig and digging anything in particular? The plugs sound really, really good in general, but is it a pipe dream to get a little more "amp-like" response out of the UA stuff?

The UA stuff is great but I have found myself using outboard gear more and more. Rent or borrow a Neve portico channel strip and see how that sounds. Or maybe even better get your hands on one of Brads V8 octal pre amps. It will easily fix all the issues you mentioned and ad a dimensional quality to the sound that you have a visceral control of while you play.

I can honestly say the Sarno V8 sounds as good tracking direct as my Milkman > Royer 121 > Neve pre > Neve compressor signal chain.

I use RME converters.

Plug ins are getting real good though. Keep us posted on what you come up with.

I mostly record direct but really don't use much of anything on record. Franklin steel to a POD X3 preamp program to a Radial Pro D.I. box to my MOTU 869Mk3 Hybrid.

I've tried other methods, including a Steel Guitar Black Box, tube preamp, SansAmp, ISA One preamp, etc but don't like it as good as my noted method.

This may get more attention in the recording section of the forum.

I have one, love it. Their amp simulators are not geared towards clean sounds though. I've gotten some decent sounds out of this, worth a demo:

https://www.scuffhamamps.com/product/s-gear

ajm, yeah, I always forget about that section... there's more eyes here, for better or worse, but if Joey wants to move it that's ok...

But in general, I do want to keep the discussion on UA or UA-compatible plugins here. I agree the Sarno stuff and lots of various outboard gear sounds great - that's not the issue, and I have some of that type of gear at my disposal. But being able to sit at home, plug in my steel to a VP, straight into the Apollo and have a very controlled woodshed/apartment recording environment is just so handy when I don't have the time to head to my studio and dial in amps/mics/pres etc...

I started out yesterday with the trial of the Softube Vintage Amp Room plug, focusing on their Fender Twin emulation, and it's pretty solid. But, interestingly enough, it still breaks up a decent amount unless I have the volume on about 3 on the virtual dial.

I've got to run to a gig this evening here but I've got a chunk of time tomorrow, I may try to throw together a couple quick recordings of what I've tried so far just for the forum's reading/listening reference...

Have you tried bass amp sims ? I have had some luck with them. I know a few Nashville guys that use UA stuff. Hopefully one of them will respond.

I have worked at a UAD equipped studio and plan to get one for the house. They are very popular here. The direct in steel chain as I understand it was: mic simulator all the way up > LA 2 A on but not compressing > > UAD pre-amp > Fender Deluxe very little gain but not distorting (just for character). I will update this if I get the exact info.

Thanks Robert - so was that an actual Fender Deluxe amp, or the '55 Tweed Deluxe sim Universal Audio offers? I know that plug-in has mic simulation happening with a Royer 121 and a Sennheiser 421, which is very similar to my standard amp'd up recording rig, so just wanted to clarify. Would love to hear a clip of that chain if it's the plugins! Just for kicks and to mess with this stuff a bit more practically, I recorded a couple clips just now, extremely quick and dirty, so please forgive any sours or recording imperfections...

Anyways, excuses aside, check out these three examples. One of them is a real Fender amp mic'd up with a Sennheiser 609 using the Apollo Twins internal preamp (all I had handy at the house currently), the other two are plugins/DI'd. Some minor processing (reverb/compression) was used on all tracks equally across the board. Curious to see what folks' ears tell them...

Example 1: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3kf2pgkiigvc1 ... 1.mp3?dl=0

Example 2: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pelw6vcohio1x ... 2.mp3?dl=0

Example 3: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4wwa4llymt9pt ... 3.mp3?dl=0

Thanks to Greg Cutshaw for the backing track - I snagged it from his website really quickly and easily, ya'll should check his page out if you haven't already!

Interested in furthering this discussion, as these UA interfaces are generally a really great tool - I just couldn't find any other discussions specific to using their stuff with pedal steel... figured it was worth a post!

Oh and Bob - I haven't gone into the bass sim stuff yet, although I probably should.
I've played steel through a good handful of real life bass amps and some of them do work pretty well..

In all my experience with amp sims/plugins, I've always found that getting the real Fender vibe is the toughest thing... I use the UA Marshall Plexi plugin with my 6-strings and it sounds really good, but getting the sweet, clean punch of a 60s/70s Fender seems to be more elusive!

Ben - It's was the Tweed Deluxe and now I remember the Pultec is in there, too. I'll get the exact chain (I'll need will need it, too) and I'll listen to your samples.

You might also try the Marshall Bluesbreaker, which is almost the same circuit as a Fender Tweed Bassman but with 12" speakers. It should have some decent undistorted tones.

Here's the direct signal I referenced above:

Steel > pedal board > Apollo Twin Mk 11 > Tweed Deluxe Plug-In (no gain - just for character) > Mic Plug In (gain up) >
1176 plug-in (slight compression and for added gain) > Little Plate Reverb (Sound Toys)

Obviously you can insert any of your favorite hardware boxes or plug-ins along the way.

Thanks fellas, appreciate ya'll furthering the discussion.

For some reason (maybe because I purchased my Twin Duo used) my Demo options for the 55 Tweed and the Bluesbreaker are listed as "expired"... but I've heard that if you contact UA and explain a little bit they'll reactivate Demos for new users, so maybe I'll try to get that done and come back with some other audio examples of those two amp models...

Don't get me wrong, I'm always more inclined to mic up a sweet pedal steel amp with ribbon and dynamic mics and blend to taste, but for those of us out there that travel a lot and record under varying circumstances, esp with UA plugins, I hope this discussion will help...

I am using the UA-610-B pre & Teletronix LA-2A limiter plug ins (included) with my 78 PP.

For guitar, I am using the 55 Tweed Deluxe and the Plexi plug-ins (purchased).

I have been thinking about getting the Eden WT plug in. Anyone try this?

Best Regards,
Sam

Hey guys

I’m a new steel player and going direct into an Apollo x8. I’m new to the UAD plugin world and my converter came with about 90 of them purchased already.

Can anyone recommend a good chain to start with?

Thanks again
Phillip

I use the Apollo Twin for my home and travel rig. Messed with the plugs a bit, but nothing beats the steel-Black box-vp-Sarno V8....

Just checking if there are any plug-in chains people like for mobile rigs

John I’m with you on that rig, I just can’t always travel with all that ... I’m due to work on a few tunes on the trip I’m currently on and just have my Apollo Twin, so I’ll mess around some more with the plugs and see what I come up with.

I’m an apollo guy too. I’ve tried several of the plugins listed above; I’ve gotten good results with the Tweed Deluxe plug. I’ve got my fingers crossed for a Blackface Fender sim from UA. It’s gotta happen one day, right?!

A quick note, using the Tweed Deluxe plugin in line mode made a world of difference in the clean capabilities of the software. That into the 610B was sounding very usable during my brief mobile session the other day...

I cut a bunch of stuff last week at my Rockport place with my JCH into a Nashville 112 with the DI out going into an Apollo and was very pleased.