Knee levers on a Fender - who will do it?

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 7 Jun 2005 10:58 am

I am close to buying a 10 string Fender 800 from a VERY nice and very patient forumite.. It is 6 pedal no knee.

I wonder if anyone here can either do it, supply parts, info, whatever. I was thinking I might have the seller send it directly to whoever may want to do the lver installation.

I am certainly capable of installing them myself, if I can get parts that will fit ok, and a bit of technical help.. I have done it on guitars with no knees before, but they were rod actuated systems... There is no need to reply here if you are a steel tech that has some knowledge of the Fender cable system, you can email me.

I need 3,but may want 4.. ANYONE thet has done this before, I would be very grateful for even the smallest bit of advise!.... bob

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 7 Jun 2005 11:34 am

Don't do it. It destroy's the collector's value of the instrument.

Ron ! · Post by **Ron !** » 7 Jun 2005 12:01 pm

I added 6 knee levers to an S-10 Fender 800 last year and it was a helluva lot of work.I added a 1 1/2" x 1/4" piece of aluminum across the inside back of the guitar frame and hung the levers off of that.Apart from designing the tunable stops and the reversing mechinisms for the right moving levers,that part was fairly easy to get together.What was difficult was finding and/or fabricating the yoke/pulley/cable/hook doo-dads to connect the levers to the changer.It would take a lot of money for me to do that job again. I have good pictures of what I did but I don't have any way to post them.BTW,since you've got an 8-string and it's not much good for an E9 tuning,I'd put a 6th tuning on there and live with the stock setup till I could get a newer 10 string. -MJ-

Mail address is tcassalc@comcast.net

Maybe he can help you Bob.

Ron[This message was edited by Ronald ! on 07 June 2005 at 01:01 PM.]

Tim Harr · Post by **Tim Harr** » 7 Jun 2005 1:00 pm

Putting Knee Levers on a classic instrument like that would be like putting a Floyd Rose Tremelo system on a '54 Stratocaster!

If having a classic instrument is so important to you then how about studying the set up and learning how to play it the way it was originally played?

I would hate to see knees added to an instrument like that, but - if it is yours I guess you can do what you want.

Just an opinion....[This message was edited by Tim Harr on 07 June 2005 at 02:06 PM.]

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 7 Jun 2005 2:05 pm

My apologies my friends.. I didn't elaborate.. This Fender has been refinished to natural.. looks very nice ,but it is NO longer a collectors item.. It has assumed the honorable title of "players piece"... bob

Per Berner · Post by **Per Berner** » 7 Jun 2005 9:03 pm

Some months ago - maybe even late last year - someone showed pictures of a VERY neat knee lever conversion on a Fender; do a search and hope the pics are still up.
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´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '96 Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, ´74 Sho-Bud Pro III Custom SD10 4+5, Peavey Nashville 1000

Patrick Ickes · Post by **Patrick Ickes** » 7 Jun 2005 9:27 pm

Bob,
Don't waste your time trying to make the guitar what it ain't. Instead, adapt your playing to suit the guitar. I have a Fender 400 w/6 pedals. I don't use a volume pedal and have most the changes of modern D-10 8x4 guitars. It's a guitar from the early sixties that will sound perfect for that era. If you want the changes and smoothness of a modern style guitar, get a a modern guitar. You will find that you will never get the "sound of a Fender with the sustain of an Emmons" and end up disappointed, selling cheap, or tossing the guitar.
Let a player who knows how to play one of those old clunkers get it and use it proprerly...... Like me!

Pat

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 7 Jun 2005 10:58 pm

Patrick.. I have a modern steel, a Carter. It is a great steel and will remain my #1 till I croak. The Fender is a long time dream.
They can be set up with knees very nicely. I have seen several that were perfectly done!
I DO play like a 60's guy!.. My Carter is set up w/ Fender spec pickups!.. The knees are needed I feel .True, Fenders don't sustain like an Emmons I guess, but I have heard some decent sustain out of old Fenders... sustain is fairly easy to get these days,, new strings, good amp, maybe a little compression and a touch of delay.. I kind of know what I am getting into[I think}.. anyway, if I really dislike it, they sell fast on ebay... I am just seeing if any good techs read this and may want to tackle the job or lead me in the right direction..... bob

Tim Whitlock · Post by **Tim Whitlock** » 8 Jun 2005 5:18 am

Here's the link for the conversion job that Per referred to:
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/008731.html

I know you've been haunted by the Fender sound for years, Bob. I really hope this works out for you!

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 8 Jun 2005 8:13 am

Bob,
You might concider doing it yourself.
I have a Fender 400 with 4x0.
I'm concidering making it into a 2x2.
In your case it could be a 4x2.
I'm thinking the easiest way to add knee levers to a 400 is to get a nice brass door hinge from the hardware store, and make a nice wood knee lever.
Attach one side of the hinge to the bottom of the body, the other side of the hinge is the knee lever (I'm envisioning a nice looking brass hinge with a nicely finished custom shaped knee lever).
I would drill a small hole in the knee lever (about 2 inches down from the body), and run the cable through it with a lock collar on the other side.
For LKL the cable goes directly from the E>F raise fingers, to the yoke, through the hole in the knee lever, with a lock collar on the other side.
For LKR (or RKR) the cable goes from the E>Eb lower fingers, to the yoke, around the turnbuckle, and through the hole in the knee lever, with a lock collar on the other side.
The changer fingers themselves (when fully enguaged) are the stops.
Just a thought.
~pb

[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 08 June 2005 at 09:15 AM.]

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 8 Jun 2005 8:40 am

Tim/Pete.. I dunno. i would REALLY like to see if I can get a real pro to do it.. I have seen several BEAUTIFUL Fender pedal steels that had levers that looked factory..
I'm sure one of the great steel guitar techs HAVE done it and CAN do it again.. Thats more where I'm going I think.. I don't want to butcher somehing in there that will be a mess.... I hope some of the techs that have done this mod will see this post and contact me... bob

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 8 Jun 2005 8:56 am

I've also heard of some guys using the Fender pedals as knee levers. Doesn't get more "factory" than that!

DZ[This message was edited by Dave Zirbel on 08 June 2005 at 09:57 AM.]

Patrick Ickes · Post by **Patrick Ickes** » 8 Jun 2005 11:22 am

Bob,
There used to be a guy (crook) listed on the resources page from Canada that, from the pictures at his website, where very well done. I'm sure B0b axed him becaused he ripped some folks off. I'll try to remember his name. Maybe his website is still up.
Good luck in your venture. If you don't like the end product, I would be interested in buying it from you.
Keep in touch,
Pat

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 8 Jun 2005 1:13 pm

I did it on an 800. All the gory details are here on this 3 page thread from a while back.
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/007185.html

In it are pics of my project and one other pretty good one also on a 2000 I believe - plus a diatribe explaining how I accomplished it all. I did it twice before - once on my very first pedal guitar in 1972 (a 400) on which I hung one knee lever using bicycle parts,and later in 1976 on some guy's 1000 where I put 4 levers on it,2 of which worked both necks - no easy feat. That one was a little slicker,a lot more work and was inspired by Red Rhodes' 800 with 6+4 and Sneaky's tricked out 400 that he played with the Burrito Bros. Pete had 2 levers + 9 pedals on there and he allowed me to check it out in detail.Seeing his guitar let me know that the sky(and my resourcefulness)was the limit. Otherwise I'd never have tackled that 1000 or this latest thing on my 800. In retrospect,I'd have to say no matter WHO does the work,knee levers on a Fender function just barely well enough to be worth adding. That's my view. -MJ-

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 8 Jun 2005 3:52 pm

Sorry out of date info..

[This message was edited by basilh on 08 June 2005 at 04:55 PM.]

Toby Rider · Post by **Toby Rider** » 10 Jun 2005 7:09 pm

You could always get a nice big "Fender" decal on place it on the front of a more modern PSG that has the desired configuration of pedals + knees. Boom, problem instantly solved in true Texas "Git er Done" style.. Heh.. Heh..

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 11 Jun 2005 6:24 am

Here's some pictures of how I did it on an old 800 a year or so ago. I don't have the time to get into it again though. Maybe this will give you some ideas. I used a simpler approach than the one in the pictures in the other post.

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Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 15 Aug 2005 3:14 pm

Here's the workaround to allow double flattening or sharpening on a "1000"
NOT cables on the knee lever just rods with loops and the old Sho-Bud halfstop barrell.

and

Baz
www.waikiki-islanders.com

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Steel players do it without fretting