| Author |
Topic: "How to intonate a Lapsteel" |
James Hartman
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
|
Posted 13 Dec 2017 3:06 pm |
|
Happened upon this instructional video today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3t_4lzj-ao
How did Jerry Byrd (or anyone else) ever manage to play in tune on those fixed-bridge instruments? |
|
|
|
Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
|
Posted 13 Dec 2017 3:17 pm
|
|
This guy is not serious.
I commented on his video and he deleted my comment.
In mentioned that we DO NOT INTONATE A LAP STEEL GUITAR.
We do not Fret our instrument.
We tune using Just Intonation and not based on equally tempered tuning.
I then posted a link to John Ely's website to educate him.
http://www.hawaiiansteel.com/tunings/my_tunings.php
Rather than educate himself and others he is misguiding a generation of potential Steel players with his intonation rubbish.
Once again we DO NOT EVER INTONATE A LAP STEEL. It is ridiculous.
I can throw his entire theory off with POOR BAR technique. And that exactly what he suffers from.
The fretboard is not used to give you the accurate position of a note/chord it is merely a guide.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
|
|
|
James Hartman
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
|
Posted 13 Dec 2017 3:31 pm
|
|
| Yes. I only mentioned it here because I hate to see people dispensing misinformation to the unwary. And it appears this guy is also marketing lapsteel instructional DVDs, so he may reach quite a few novice players with this. |
|
|
|
Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
|
Posted 13 Dec 2017 8:16 pm
|
|
| Stefan Robertson wrote: |
| ...DO NOT EVER INTONATE A LAP STEEL. It is ridiculous. |
I can only partially agree with that statement. When setting up a lap steel, it's important that the nut and bridge are spaced the correct distance apart, the bridge is perfectly parallel to the nut, and that the 12th fret on the fretboard is exactly half the distance between the two. Anything beyond that is superfluous. |
|
|
|
Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
|
Posted 13 Dec 2017 8:57 pm
|
|
Hopefully beginners who watch this video will not remove the original bridge from a vintage lap steel and put on a completely unnecessary Tune-o-matic bridge.
The problem begins with the builders of these cheapo lap steels. To keep costs down, they buy cheap adjustable guitar bridges and put them on their lap steels. Then beginners screw around (no pun) with the intonation and mess things up. So maybe videos like this are helpful to correct the intonation "adjustments" made by unaware owners. The adjustable bridge should never have been put on the lap steel in the first place. What's next? ...a truss rod in a lap steel? Maybe these cheap steels are so poorly designed they need an adjustable bridge. 
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
|
|
|
Chase Brady
From:
Ohio, USA
|
Posted 14 Dec 2017 6:37 am
|
|
| I believe Dillion boasts a two way truss rod. |
|
|
|
Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
|
Posted 14 Dec 2017 7:35 am
|
|
| Chase Brady wrote: |
| I believe Dillion boasts a two way truss rod. |
Aww my sides are hurting. I needed a good laugh.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
|
|
|
Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
|
|
|
|
Robert Allen
From:
Tennessee, USA
|
Posted 15 Dec 2017 7:42 am
|
|
| Over the years I've built a half dozen lap steels with adjustable bridges. People email, "I don't understand why you don't offer a model with an adjustable bridge". Despite my explanations it's a deal breaker for some. I've built things that I thought were ill advised but being a custom shop, building what someone wants is what puts the food on the table. |
|
|
|
Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
|
|
|
|
Bill Groner
From:
QUAKERTOWN, PA
|
Posted 15 Dec 2017 8:04 am
|
|
| Robert Allen wrote: |
| Over the years I've built a half dozen lap steels with adjustable bridges. People email, "I don't understand why you don't offer a model with an adjustable bridge". Despite my explanations it's a deal breaker for some. I've built things that I thought were ill advised but being a custom shop, building what someone wants is what puts the food on the table. |
As they say..............The customer is always right! Even though it rubs one (the builder) the wrong way.
_________________
Currently own, 6 Groner-tone lap steels, one 1953 Alamo Lap steel, Roland Cube, Fender Champion 40 |
|
|
|
Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
|
Posted 15 Dec 2017 8:30 am
|
|
Doug and Chase
you guys made me laugh so hard. Great.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
|
|
|
David Knutson
From:
Cowichan Valley, Canada
|
Posted 15 Dec 2017 10:58 am
|
|
Just a question and reality check here regarding truss rods. When I look at the steels on the Dillion website, am I not seeing round necks on those steels? So isn't a truss rod quite appropriate in that case? I don't think a round neck steel would be my choice, but if I had one I would certainly want the neck to remain flat.
And . . . . jumbo frets are really easy to see . . . 
_________________
David K |
|
|
|
Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
|
|
|
|
James Hartman
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
|
Posted 15 Dec 2017 11:42 am
|
|
| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
David, you're right. The Dillion lap steels DO have a truss rod! Good grief. They should stick to making cheap guitars. They also call the lap steel FRETBOARD a "finger board". Wrong. The player's fingers never touch the fretboard. More guitar lingo and confusion.
|
Hey, at least it has a roller nut. Must be anticipating all the likely purchasers who'll be putting palm pedals on those instruments. |
|
|
|
Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
|
Posted 15 Dec 2017 1:16 pm
|
|
I think since its a Chinese import you are lucky that it makes sense.
I also notice that on Alibaba - the Chinese ebay for companies to order hundreds of one product(bulk ordering)
that where possible they always mention European, Italian or American named locations as place of origin - as its probably sitting in a warehouse/shipping container from China.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
|
|
|
Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
|
|
|
|
George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
|
|
|
|
Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
|
|
|
|
Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
|
Posted 16 Dec 2017 6:24 pm
|
|
But the Dillon also includes a..."pus"?
I wonder if: "there is also a margin of the truss rod with the good neck. It is about 70% remaining. Overall fine scratch fine scratches, scratches on the bag etc. There is a feeling of use. The dullness of the metal part etc. is seen. The sound is excellent with the pickup original."
- copied and pasted from an active eBay listing for an Epiphone Les Paul.
honest!
I commented on the video as well. I'm *sure* he'll delete it. It stuns me how many comments there were from supposed players and (gasp) techs that agreed with him.
Adjustable bridge? So what? Just set the saddles up in a nice, straight line like every decent lap steel ever made.
Maybe "words" confuse him and he just needs to look at a few thousand pictures.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
|
|
|
Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 16 Dec 2017 8:01 pm
|
|
OK......!!
For those who need to "adjust" the bridge, the cheap Rogue lap steels have "adjustable" bridges, which I assume ( there I go, assuming again !) are plectrum/ Spanish guitar parts they had for production, and just screwed'em on there, with no need to make solid bridges !
I have one of those Rogues here, that Bobby Ingano sent, for my grand daughter to learn on. First thing was to get things "even" & the scale set right ! |
|
|
|
Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
|
|
|
|
James Hartman
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
|
Posted 17 Dec 2017 7:15 am
|
|
| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
| Yes, those adjustable bridges are a solution in search of a problem. In fact, the bridges are the problem. That’s why today’s players need videos like that to tell them how to correct the intonation problems created by the wrong kind of bridge on a lap steel. |
This. My objection to the video is that, as presented, it implies that some degree of string length "compensation" is required in order to get a lapsteel to play in tune, from which one might infer that the bridge with adjustable saddles is necessary - in other words, that the same intonation issues exist as on a standard guitar. Indeed, he says early on something like: "even a fretless instrument like the lapsteel needs to be intonated".
He might better have introduced it from the perspective of some of you might be starting out on an instrument with an adjustable bridge that's not been properly set up, here's how to correct it if it won't play in tune when barred across the strings. |
|
|
|
Bill Groner
From:
QUAKERTOWN, PA
|
|
|
|
Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
|
|
|
|
