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Topic: 10-string steel! |
Allan Haley
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 18 Nov 2017 9:23 am |
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Hi steelers.
Tomorrow, I'm picking up a 10-string home-build steel on legs.
I play PSG, but not straight steel except for some 6-string dobro, tuned 5,6,1,3,5,1, low to high.
Any thoughts on what to tune the other four strings to? Or should I rethink the tuning altogether. I don't have to use all 10 slots.
Looking forward to getting into the world of straight steel.
Thanks
Al |
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Ken Campbell
From:
Ferndale, Montana
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Posted 18 Nov 2017 10:12 am
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| I play 10 string no pedals. I use Tom Morrells e13 tuning. Very robust and fascinating. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 18 Nov 2017 10:21 am
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| SG HOF member Billy Robinson plays a non-pedal 10 string. I don't have his tuning, though. |
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Jouni Karvonen
From:
Helsinki, Finland
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Posted 18 Nov 2017 11:36 am
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| Billy Robinson's tuning from the top: D-G-E-C-A-G-E-C-A-F |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 18 Nov 2017 11:50 am
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| Ken Campbell wrote: |
| I play 10 string no pedals. I use Tom Morrells e13 tuning. Very robust and fascinating. |
+1 for E13
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Tom Cooper
From:
Orlando, Fl
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Posted 18 Nov 2017 5:32 pm 10 string tuning
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| I am having Jimmie Hudson build me a 10 string lap steel, and as much as I love A6 I am gonna have to go with the Morrell tuning but I want to change 2 strings. Gonna put F# on top and G# second. And gonna try B on bottom instead of the low E. I am trying to go with single neck and retire my D8 E13/9-A6 set up. Not sure if I can get away with it though, I use both so much, really gonna have to sit down with it. If it is not possible I will still use it for sit ins and such, but really want to go single neck tuning. It is hell choosing witch one! In the end I think the E13 Morrell type set up is gonna win out for me. But playing C#m on Big Iron is gonna be weird on E tuning. B chord also. Gonna have to find ways to make it work. I really like the lower voicing of A6 for those. Will have to see when it gets here. |
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Allan Haley
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 18 Nov 2017 5:51 pm
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Tom, that's exactly what I was thinking. I might keep the top two strings like PSG, so I won't be confused all the time. I like the low B.
Maybe this: B D E F# G# B C# E G# (or D) F# |
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Allan Haley
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 18 Nov 2017 5:55 pm
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A lot to try to learn. This is looking better all the time.
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Tom Cooper
From:
Orlando, Fl
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Posted 18 Nov 2017 6:52 pm 10 string tuning
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| Hahahahaha! Yes. It is confusing, but yeah, I am gonna experiment with Morrell variations and in the end at least it will be a nice set up for single neck grab and go. Really appreciate Stefans enthusiasm for E13. That and seeing Tom Morrell in action really has been big influence. Also Mike Neer. The bright, sparkle of E13 really cuts through. I just am gonna have to adjust for certain things I do in A6 keys/mode. The F# on top like pedal steel, and G# like E tuning I am used to may help, but I may try Morrell way also. Cant wait to dig in to 10 string! Been wanting to for a while. I want to do jazz standards, swing,classic country and rockabilly on it. I am getting tired of D8 for gigs all the time. Boy it sure works though. But so will being able to just unzip bag and pull out single lap steel. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Allan Haley
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 18 Nov 2017 9:40 pm
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| Thanks, Doug. The 1940s Epiphone vids. I like that tuning because it's close to E9 PSG. The same reason I have been trying the six-string tuning you posted a few weeks ago- D E F# G# B E |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 19 Nov 2017 12:00 am
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I'll be honest the high G# on the first string is not nearly as important as the low G# below the B.
Hence why I got rid of mine. You can do all the same chords on the 2nd and 3rd strings down so I strongly recommend the low G# instead.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Tom Cooper
From:
Orlando, Fl
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Posted 19 Nov 2017 3:41 am 10 string tuning
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| I tried to go without G# up high and hated it. Really missed it. Plus all the Don Helms stuff is gone. As are pedal steel type slants. But a lot of the old swing guys didn't use it, they used the low G# like Stefan describes. I guess that is why the 12 string tuning is ideal. I could only afford 10. But yeah, for the stuff I do I really missed G# on top. I tried to do the same chords down thing and found it was really awkward, especially under pressure, live situation. Maybe if I had worked at it more. I use that high G# a lot. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 19 Nov 2017 7:13 am
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| My 10 string pedal steel C6th still has the high G. Coming from lap steel I play a lot on the C6th without pedals. I tried the D on the first string like Emmons but I lose licks so I went back to the high G. |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 19 Nov 2017 2:12 pm Re: 10 string tuning
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| Tom Cooper wrote: |
| I tried to go without G# up high and hated it. Really missed it. Plus all the Don Helms stuff is gone. As are pedal steel type slants. But a lot of the old swing guys didn't use it, they used the low G# like Stefan describes. I guess that is why the 12 string tuning is ideal. I could only afford 10. But yeah, for the stuff I do I really missed G# on top. I tried to do the same chords down thing and found it was really awkward, especially under pressure, live situation. Maybe if I had worked at it more. I use that high G# a lot. |
What pedal moves maybe I can help.
I have just gone through E9 pedal moves and ALL can be done without that High G#.
I now am starting the Emmons/Jernigan C6 and mapping all of those moves on E13.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Tom Cooper
From:
Orlando, Fl
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Posted 19 Nov 2017 5:51 pm 10 string tuning
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| The big slants. As well as double stops. I just couldn't find them quick enough on swing version of E13. I know there is a good reason Vance Terry, Noel Boggs and Mccauluffe used the G# in lower register, but I am too far into having it on top. I found myself reaching for it all the time. I may use one of my two 8 string lap steels to experiment with G# on bottom thing after I get my 10 string. Who knows. But I don't think my G# on top is going anywhere any time soon. |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 12 Dec 2017 7:22 pm One tuning, so many players
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
| I play Morrell's E13 (with low B) on my 10-string Eharp. It's similar to E9 pedal steel guitar tuning. I have four YouTube videos of songs played in this tuning. |
I am always amazed how some many players sound so very different on the same tuning. Doug Beaumier & Tom Morrell both playing the same tuning but not sound anything alike to my ear.
Both top notch players but feel their way around the same available notes and chords in totally different styles.
I could listen to them both play that E13th for hours, but Doing has only four tunes on youtube. Maybe he'll do some more in the future.  
Someone once said something like "My favorite steel player is the one I'm listening to at the moment" Sounds right to me because I just can't pick a favorite.
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 12 Dec 2017 7:24 pm One tuning, so many players (Fixed spellcheck typos)
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
| I play Morrell's E13 (with low B) on my 10-string Eharp. It's similar to E9 pedal steel guitar tuning. I have four YouTube videos of songs played in this tuning. |
I am always amazed how so many players sound so very different on the same tuning. Doug Beaumier & Tom Morrell both playing the same tuning, but not sound anything alike to my ear.
Both top notch players, but feel their way around the same available notes and chords in totally different styles.
I could listen to them both play that E13th for hours, but Doug has only four tunes on youtube. Maybe he'll do some more in the future.
Someone once said something like "My favorite steel player is the one I'm listening to at the moment" Sounds right to me because I just can't pick a favorite.
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project.
Last edited by Andy DePaule on 21 Dec 2017 2:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tom Cooper
From:
Orlando, Fl
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Posted 18 Dec 2017 5:49 pm 10 string
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| Been working with new 10 string lap steel with my band. Using the modified Tom Morrell E13. Was tough to get used to at first, neck so wide, got disoriented a lot. Had studied and worke up a lot on 8 string version but not the same, esp live under pressure. First 3 gigs were rough, but 4th finally started to get it. What bar to use was a factor also. Jerry Byrd bar is super fast and such but was not enough weight it seemed and too short for wide grips. Standard 7/8 bar can be noisy if not careful and seems so heavy for moving fast but ultimately went with it. Just gonna have to get used to it. Sure works my hand though. Really liking the high F# for handy melody lines and low B for octave work and root & 5th stuff. String spacing is 3/8 and scale is 24. It's wide! Starting to feel better with it but was really awkward at first. Like it better now. Consolette is same spacing I think. Finding ways to fake some of my A6 stuff. More I play it more I like it. Did you ever decide on a ten string tuning? |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 18 Dec 2017 6:57 pm E13th will be the first
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Hi Tom,
E13th with a B on the bottom will be the first.
That is very close to how I tuned my first 10 string pedal steel back in 76 & 77 but with the F# on the outside.
Like you, I'm also very comfortable with A6th but really want to work on this tuning.
I like that the E13th grips are very tight and close to each other.
Also that it is almost a diatonic tuning so very easy to pick out melodies and harmony without needing big jumps.
My main bar is 3.25" X 7/8" not sure the weight, but easy to use and decent tone with light pressure also.
I have a practice bar that is 15/16th X 3.75" and quite heavy. I like the tone and don't need to press it down to be clean. Only like it on my PSG's.
I see in the youtube videos that Tom Morrell seemed to use a very large bar and had no speed problems.
Also have a couple of the Clinesmith smaller plastic (Steel filled) bars sized to 3" X 3/4". They have a real nice feel and less stress to do hammer on's and lift off's, but have been using them less these days as I get more used to playing lap steel. Now seem to prefer my 7/8" steel bar. Have given some thought to getting one of Todd's 15/16" bars because the plastic ones do seem a little easier to hang onto.
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 18 Dec 2017 9:11 pm
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Great to hear you are getting on.
Its an awesome tuning but requires a huge amount of effort and focus to get things right at speed and under pressure. Keep at it.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 18 Dec 2017 9:16 pm
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Also bar weight I use a heavy 12.4Oz bullet bar stainless steel.
You get use to whatever you practice with eventually.
Heavier bar = more sustain, less effort, crisper notes.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 19 Dec 2017 5:17 pm Re: 10 string
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| Tom Cooper wrote: |
| Been working with new 10 string lap steel with my band. Using the modified Tom Morrell E13. Was tough to get used to at first, neck so wide, got disoriented a lot. Had studied and worke up a lot on 8 string version but not the same, esp live under pressure. First 3 gigs were rough, but 4th finally started to get it. What bar to use was a factor also. Jerry Byrd bar is super fast and such but was not enough weight it seemed and too short for wide grips. Standard 7/8 bar can be noisy if not careful and seems so heavy for moving fast but ultimately went with it. Just gonna have to get used to it. Sure works my hand though. Really liking the high F# for handy melody lines and low B for octave work and root & 5th stuff. String spacing is 3/8 and scale is 24. It's wide! Starting to feel better with it but was really awkward at first. Like it better now. Consolette is same spacing I think. Finding ways to fake some of my A6 stuff. More I play it more I like it. Did you ever decide on a ten string tuning? |
Tom, you need a 7/8 TriboTone or the like. You will be amazed!
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer 1963 Gibson Falcon |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 19 Dec 2017 5:26 pm
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I realised that although all these new space age plastic/polymer bars have been made still all the huge steel guitar legends albums we all love have been done majority using a good old steel bar.
So if they sound like that with steel definitely something to think about.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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