Strange Tuning Failure

Webb Kline · From: Orangeville, PA

I had a disaster happen to me last night. We volunteered to play for a fundraiser for a girl dying of cancer. We thought we were to be the first ones to go on, but once we had our equipment set up they asked us if we would be the headliner, ending the show.

It was outside with the early evenenig sun coming in on the stage, although it was dark by the time we went on.

I tuned my steel, a GFI D10 keyless 8+8, when I first set it up. When we went on, it not only had dropped drastically, but some of the pedals were completely out of whack. I did a quick tune, but time was limited and I never got it very close. I had to pick around some of the strings in order to get by.

Fortunately I play other instruments so I didn't have to hang out on the steel all night, but I've never had anything like this happen even playing out in the sun all day. Any clues why this happened in such a dramatic way?

I'm taking it down to Billy Cooper's next week to have him go over it. Is there anything they should be looking for that might cause this?

John Daugherty · From: Rolla, Missouri, USA

It is normal for the strings to change with temperature change. The pedal/changer adjustments should stay the same. You should only have to retune the strings.

Bill Ford · From: Graniteville SC Aiken

Temp change,humidity,nite air,be'ing outside w/ a cool breeze blowing,all will play havock on the best guitar made. Been there, done that. Outside gigs are a bummer.

Bill

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Never underestimate temperature effects. Tune your 5th or 6th (if unwound) E9 string straight up then rub it between your thumb and forefinger a couple of times the length of the string and check the tuner. It moves BIG TIME.

If you set up in the sun and tuned your guitar, then the sun went down and things cooled off before you played, that was your problem. It can't be completely avoided, but I keep my guitar covered outside -- the direct sun will heat it up more than the air temp. I also never tune my guitar until I've played it for 5 or 10 minutes, if possible. That acclimates the strings to the temperature of your hands under playing conditions.

And, yes, if the strings went far enough flat, the pedal stops could have been out of tune. Tuning in the winter before the guitar warms up or in the summer before it cools down to something close to playing temperature will cause problems. I always try to set up in the shade and/or keep the strings covered as much as possible and don't touch a pedal stop until I've played for several minutes and the strings are at the same temperature they'll be when playing.

My two cents.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

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[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 22 July 2005 at 10:30 AM.]

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Webb.. it happened to me yesteday.
. Luckily I was able to get it reasonably close in betwwen tunes somehow, but it was WAY out on my low G# string AND pedal.
NASTY tuning failure on a few pedals and strings. Outdoor gig...Williams Keyless. It has happened many times to me over the years with several brands..
USUALLY on outdoor gigs but not always... I have to respectfully disagree with my good buddy John D, as I feel the pulls can go nuts too.
My pull tunings have gone berserk a few times .. I feel quick temp changes wreak havoc with the Changer parts, body,strings,rods, nylons..keyheads.. everything... Think of all the things on your steel that affect tuning.. LOTS of stuff. In any case, It JUST happened to me yesterday, and it has happened MANY times in the past, and will happen again... It happens to the BEST guitars....bob

[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 22 July 2005 at 09:47 AM.]

John Macy · From: Rockport TX/Denver CO

Check out the Stay Cool Covers--they work wonders on outside gigs...
www.staycoolcovers.com

Webb Kline · From: Orangeville, PA

Larry, I think you may have nailed it. I'll try that at the Nascar gig tonight. At least I'll have some time to work on it there.

Bob, that's interesting about the G#. That was the worst one by far of any of the ones that went out on me. The changer tuning was almost gone. Barely oover the open G#.

Bill Bosler · From: Schwenksville, Pennsylvania, USA

What Larry said. I keep my steel covered with an old bath towel between sets and before we start when I do outdoor gigs. It will detune a little, but usually nothing I can't compensate for with bar placement.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Thermal changes in your guitar's tuning should be very minor under normal circumstances (which sounds like was the case in this instance). "Drastic" changes in you guitar's tuning usually means one of 2 things...poor design, or a mechanical problem like a loose changer, keyhead, or pedal-stop bar. They had lots more of these problems on older, all aluminum bodied guitars, or on guitars where the aluminum neck wasn't properly isolated from the changer or nut. Nowadays, with a modern guitar, a light "touching up" of the tuning is all that should ever be necessary unless you change string guages.

At any rate, what Gene said was very important. Never try to tune your guitar without playing it for awhile.

Nic du Toit · From: Milnerton, Cape, South Africa

Are you sure nobody touched your guitar?...

[This message was edited by Nic du Toit on 22 July 2005 at 01:35 PM.]

seldomfed · From: Colorado

Played at a bull riding rodeo last weekend, it was 102deg. Stage was not covered. (typical treatment for the band)

Anyway the Mullen got HOT, but stayed in tune! It was cookin' out there. Later at home, I set it up and of course it had cooled and was out of tune, but not substantially.

Also, the display on the VSII went dark due to the sun/heat - so I covered it and was able to read it after it cooled later.

btw, don't leave your bar in the sun and then try and pick it up

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Chris Kennison
Colorado

Frank Parish · From: Nashville,Tn. USA

If I were going to be playing a lot outside in the summer, I'd have one of those thermol (silver looking) covers you can buy from Duane Marrs. As hot as it is these days I imagine keeping it in tune would be near impossible.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

A white bath towel works mighty fine for keeping the sun off your guitar when you're not playing it.

Cheap, and easy to get, too.

Harold Parris · From: Piedmont, Alabama USA

If your pull rods are made of aluminum, your pedals could also get out with heat or cold more so. They contract and expand the same as a string does.

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