not something you see every day

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

I got an email this week from someone local I didn't know who was put on to me by another forum member. He had an MSA and he needed help setting it up, could I help? I said I'd be glad to. Then he sent me the following photos.
I told him that I would pay him for the opportunity to have a closer look at this thing.
Long story short, we spent a few hours this afternoon working on it. By the time I was happy with the E9, I knew that between fatigue and considerably less familiarity with C6, it would be a long haul to get started with the second neck so we called it a day. But I'm pleased that he went away understanding the mechanics real well and well equipped to do the job himself whenever he was motivated to want to play that neck.

"MSA"1
"MSA"2

My hat's off to Pete. A really innovative and fine piece of work.
This guitar has significant acoustic sound although, frankly, I don't think it would cut even an acoustic instrument situation. The photos don't show it but the body is a real-deal piece of luthiery with x-braced spruce top & all.
The sound of the guitar is not my cup of tea (I also don't know if the Supersustain II pickups are the right ones for this guitar) and it is freakin really long. It is ergonomically awkward to play.
But I admire the gumption. And I'm a six pack richer.

Ernie Pollock · From: Mt Savage, Md USA

Man, I almost hate to say this, but I am sure there will plenty thinking it, looks like someone ruined a good pedal steel here.

Ernie

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Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I don't know how it can be called an "MSA". It apprently has MSA parts in it but that's all.

It is a unique design...

Jon Zimmerman · From: California, USA

Obviously the man has lutherie talent in spades. Have to call it an EARLY prototype of what he eventually may get to. Innovation takes learning curves that you may spin in and out of. But the effort sure looks quality...sort of a Stew Mac Pedal Bro,thats what I'd call. Outstanding effort. What if contact p/u's were put on the bridge, and then mixed; may improve the overall output. Just thinkin OL. JZ

Jon Zimmerman · From: California, USA

Still staring at this thru bleary eyes while the arabica bean grinds kick-in. I'm thinkin serious cabinet drop--may be all the way to droop. I wonder if this will be seen by Paul Franklin Sr. later on...this thread may go on for miles after every one else looks too. Marvelous woods. But the angle the strings take off the --Rosewood(?) bridge, man, --long way to the changer shafts too. Hmmm, another place to pluck for strange clanky sounds? <^>JZ

Allen Peterson · From: Katy, Texas

How much does this thing weigh?

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

I love instruments like this. There are some old funky MSA guitars around so hopefully a pristene one was not sacrificed. I would like to get in touch with the person who made this to learn some more about it and maybe hear a sample of the sound of it and get some other pics.

If I were building this, I think I might have just done a single neck so that the area of the acoustic top might be more utilized for possibly more volume and less pressure on the top. Any other thoughts on maybe using acoustic piezo type pickups and such.

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

THAT is what I call a beautiful steel.

Jon Zimmerman · From: California, USA

Hmmm. Seems to have enough room on the players left to mount some Marimba Bars--a la b0b's new toy. Might be acoustic compatibles. Well, enuf for now, gotta wrench out my son's idler pulley that went to toast last nite--on his Jeep, not guitar. Cheers from the Left Cursed--I mean--Left Coast!!

JZ

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Actually, I am very impressed. The builder is obviously an innovate,creative,and TALENTED guy.. The string angle is quite severe... I would wonder if there may be breakage or tuning difficulties... bob

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

I regret that I didn't ask a lot of the questions that later on (and now) came to mind. I truly don't know if this was a basket case MSA that was used. I do believe that all the undercarriage was dropped in--that is, all the parts are MSA from a single guitar--and since the set-up was somewhat close to being ok--a lot of adjustments in pedal travel, overtuned nylon nuts, etc. were necessary--I assume that he didn't stick-build the undercarriage. He's not an experienced steeler and would never have gotten it so close so it must have been a one piece drop-in. Considering the level of craftsmanship involved, it's hard for me to imagine him destroying an otherwise good cabinet. So let's assume that this is a 'phoenix', arisen from the ashes. He also made the endplates.

A significant amount of mechanical noise is transmitted through the pickups. Could be they are very microphonic. But this, plus other experiments I've read about here would indicate that you just can't put a piezo on a mechanical device like a PSG.

Cabinet drop----I was expecting the worst. What I wasn't expecting was that rather than the body being a carpenter's box, I believe it is carved out of a solid piece of walnut!!?? Or a couple of laminated slabs. I wish I could look it over some more to get a better grasp but time was short and we had a lot of work to do. Anyway, I'd say that the E9 6th string dropped about the same as any other steel I've played when stepping on B&C pedals.

He has some felt wound into the strings right near the changer to dampen excess string vibration--I assume that extra string length didn't enhance the sound.

Tuning difficulties: I don't know where he picked up the keyless tuner but it was my first encounter with one and I found the need for the allen wrench to tune the strings to be a major pain in the butt. Between ancient strings, my air conditioner, and all the adjustments I was making underneath, the best I could do was have him leave my place with the guitar well adjusted but needing fine tuning. I had a distinct feeling that staying in tune may well be a problem. It seemed to constantly need tweaking at the head. But like I said, conditions were extreme and once it is well tuned and stable, it may be ok.

I'm not sure if I addressed all comments above. I regret that I, too, have more questions, now that I've had time to dwell on it.

My best satisfaction is that I think he is equipped to do his own maintenance and set-up work now. That's as it should be and I'm glad I could help.

---BTW, let me add:
acoustically, I would describe the sound as "lute-like". That also means very low sustain.

Also, I believe that the extent of Pete's luthier experience is book-studying. Obviously he has carpentry and machining skills. For him, there was a musical goal but it was also a learning experience.

[This message was edited by Jon Light on 16 July 2005 at 08:03 AM.]

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

In addition to the loss of down-bearing, I would think that the string length behind the bridge might contribute to tuning problems. Maybe.
It's definitely a hybrid. Were it mine (and I'd love it) I'd be tempted to add pickups behind the bridge to blend the sympathetic vibrations. (Piano tuners use string braid for the non-singing string portion; seems more decorative than anything.) Going to be some funny harmonics happening back there, acoustically.

Drew Howard · From: 48854

Very interesting, Jon. Thanks for sharing.

Drew

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Drew Howard - website - Fessenden D-10 8/8, Fessenden SD-12 5/5 (Ext E9), Magnatone S-8, N400's, BOSS RV-3

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