Clarification on Mr. Emmons' tuning

Drew Howard · From: 48854

I'm not wanting to start a debate on ET vs. JI tunings, but wanted to know if E tuned his pedal and lever pulls on both necks to 440 (ET). Would love to hear from the maestro himself....

thanks a million,
Drew

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Drew Howard - website - Fessenden D-10 8/8, Fessenden SD-12 5/5 (Ext E9), Magnatone S-8, N400's, BOSS RV-3

[This message was edited by Drew Howard on 28 June 2005 at 08:51 AM.]

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Here's a couple of forum threads to check out, Drew:
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/003912.html
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/007821.html

Love that search function - dg

Drew Howard · From: 48854

Dave,

Thanks, I'm aware of the search function

I already read the ET/JI threads. Still wondering of the E tunes both necks (or just the E neck) and all his pedal and lever pulls 440 (ET), or not.

thanks again,
Drew

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Drew Howard - website - Fessenden D-10 8/8, Fessenden SD-12 5/5 (Ext E9), Magnatone S-8, N400's, BOSS RV-3

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Drew,
I was just reading and researching the posts regarding JI/ET this morning, and this is as close, I think, as Mr. Emmons came to stating it, from Dave's second link above:

"My apologies for not explaining up front Bill, but I do tune everything ET. Compensation is what I had to deal with tuning the old way but now it’s a thing of the past. I may go a cent or so flat in some cases but strictly to handle temp changes under certain conditions.
Also when I hear a JI steel third in a ET track, flat is the only word I can come up with."

Drew Howard · From: 48854

Charlie,

Thank you. I guess I should take E's statement that he "tunes everything ET" to mean pedals and levers also. Guess I better try it. Could get scary...

Thanks all,
Drew

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Drew Howard - website - Fessenden D-10 8/8, Fessenden SD-12 5/5 (Ext E9), Magnatone S-8, N400's, BOSS RV-3

[This message was edited by Drew Howard on 28 June 2005 at 02:03 PM.]

Bobby Boggs · From: Upstate SC.

I know he tuned everything straight up,both necks on the LeGrande III. But how about guitars without the counterforce to eliminate cabinet drop????.........bb

[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 28 June 2005 at 07:10 PM.]

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Drew,
I had been re-reading the posts on tuning to try and discover just what the problem is, and it seems to come down to thirds.

It's hard to summarize, so I recommend a reading of the topic in Dave's second link above. It may not mean a lot to you, but one can see what the real question is, and there are good references to the history of the problem.

But I did notice one more thing Mr. Emmons said. Tuning the E-G# third, it sounded sharp to him; but adding the B, the triad sounded right.
He's talking about tempering.

As a piano tuner, I'd say that the piano (and other similar keyboards, and pedal harps) are the only instruments that are truly equally tempered. In the end, it's just easier that way. All thirds are 'wide', as are all fourths, and all fifths are slightly 'narrow' from beatless, or 'just'. They have to be to get them into an octave and have all the intervals useful.

With steel, you have some latitude, and thus it needn't be scary.
Like tuning a standard guitar (and they all tune differently). I have my method, but there's always going to be some adjustment to be made, typically on the B string, for some reason (it's that pesky G-B third!).

So eventually you'll settle on a third that blends with the entire chord. That's tempering, and it won't be exactly equal, and it won't be just, but it'll sound good to your ear.

Buddy's been at it a long time, he's a pioneer, and I think eventually steel tuning will follow his findings. But don't let it drive you mad; Buddy found it made it simpler. (It sure made the piano a lot simpler to tune.) It just takes a little playing around with.
Good luck, and have fun!
Charlie

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Eventually.

I followed his findings before I even knew what they were.

What do the G/B tuning changes do to other voicings?

How about the fixed frets?

EJL

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Eric, you're a pioneer and don't know it.

I think we've already agreed on the future of the equal temperament. It's kind of equal to the past.

Voicings? what are voicings?

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

What I really would like to see is a tuning procedure as to how Mr. Emmons tunes everything ET "except" some that he may or may not tweak a little, because there's at least one issue I have a hard time to understand with that approach and that is how he will handle "drop detuning" (yeah, I know, he's got that Lashley III... but he's also got some other guitars too, so...).
So, it's the procedure and the tools (tuner, other instruments or ears?) and which strings and changes he'd "tweak" and how much and relative to what.

Are we getting a little too personal?

Thanks! ... J-D.

William Steward · From: Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands

Regarding this never-ending subjective question...has anyone analyzed what BE actually plays on recorded tracks to see if it is 'in ET tune'? Like a great violinist, I am sure Mr. Emmons makes whatever corrections are necessary for the music to sound 'sweet' to him. Inquiring, obsessive minds want to know.

Al Carmichael · From: Sylvan Lake, Michigan, USA

I've been following this whole endless debate for some time myself. I've been tuning to JI for some time. Today, I decided to test out ET tuning, just to see how "bad" it might be.

I was quite surprised. I found it easier to get the steel to fit into the tuning of most of the recordings I played along to--including some of my own projects. I'm going to run with ET for a while and see how it strikes me in different situations. I thought it would sound sour and just plain bad, but it sounded GOOD. I was surprised!

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