PSG as investment ?

Joe Lipman · Post by **Joe Lipman** » 5 Jun 2005 6:07 am

This has probably been discussed here before, but I'll bring it up again.

I'm new to pedal steel guitar. I keep reading about old Emmons PP guitars being the guitar to own. I also hear that they are somewhat quirky and hard to work on, so I'm not sure I'd want one to play on a regular basis.

I'd like opinions if it would be worth getting one (or more) as an investement?

Thanks for any advice on the subject

Joe

Post by **Joey Ace** » 5 Jun 2005 6:19 am

I expect a lot of interesting discussion on this topic.
Without being able to tell future trends, there's no way to predict future values.

Who would have thought those cheap Teles we couldn't sell for $200 in the 60s are now worth $10K while some much betters guitars have not kept up with inflation

Any predictions are a guess

I would predict NO, and I own and play two Emmons Push Pulls, an S-10, and a D-10. I enjoy them for what they are, not as an investiment.

I am sure my friend Bobbe, will disagree, and his credentials far exceed mine. Still he has no crystal ball.

I have a beautiful 50's Stringmaster that might be considered an investment, but I don't have a crystal ball either, so I just enjoy it for the great instrument it is.

Joey

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 5 Jun 2005 6:33 am

Joey, I DO have a cristal ball! Actually I have two! But as for the future, it's just an educated guess.
I'd bet on Emmons P-P and Sho-Bud investments over a lot of real estate and the stock market though.
Yes, look at the Bigsbys. Ten years ago, $300.00, now $12000.00 for some. The Bud Issacs Bigsby offer was turned down at over $35000.00, Yes, thirty five thousand!
Many P-P guitars have gone for well over eight grand, the future looks great. The Sho-Bud "Super Pro II" models have sold for over ten grand several times.
Investments? Yes, but be careful, as you would while making investments in anything.
Tone, condition, originality, desirability and rarity contribute to the collection value in these guitars. If the guitar doesn't sound good, nothing else matters.

My opinions,
Bobbe

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 5 Jun 2005 6:37 am

As usual, there is no answer to this question -- there are many answers.

Is ANY steel guitar a good investment? Yes.
Are ALL steel guitars a good investment? No.

Look at the real estate market. Compare a house on the ocean with one in a neighborhood of houses 'all the same'. The one on the water will appreciate several times faster than the one that's not. WHY? The one on the ocean costs more to begin with, but the main thing is supply/demand --- good ole capitalism. MANY people DREAM about living on the ocean -- and are willing to pay a BIG premium for it.

There are hundreds -- or even thousands -- of vintage Emmons, MSA, Sho-Bud, ZB (etc.) guitars out there. There are far fewer Bigsby guitars. Why do Bigsby guitars sell for 10x more than the others? They sound great, more people want one than there are guitars available, but there are VERY FEW of them out there. So you'll see them for $10K or more when they originally cost only a few hundred dollars.

I'll go back to the real estate analogy. I live in Florida where some markets are appreciating at 30% or more a year. Will the best, most desirable vintage steel grow in value like that? NO.

If you have $10K to invest, you will do much better investing it with a financial advisor who knows what he/she is doing. Most can get you 7-10% per year -- maybe more. Your money is available at any time (liquid). I won't say that a Bigsby or special pedigreed Emmons or Bud won't grow that fast, but finding a buyer to collect that profit may be difficult and time consuming.

If you want a great vintage guitar, buy one. When you sell it, you may have a pleasant surprise in store for you -- maybe NOT. I would NOT, however, advise ANYONE to invest their retirement money in one hoping to realize a profit. It may happen; it may not.

That's MY opinion.

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<small>Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 5 Jun 2005 7:17 pm

I couldn't have said it better,

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 5 Jun 2005 7:47 pm

I own, and play professionally, a good number of vintage steels. I bought them to play and keep, not as investments, but because I love them. When I first started on steel guitar around 1964, a steel guitar looked like a Sho~Bud, an Emmons, a Bigsby, or a Fender. It's a love thing.

An "investment," almost by definition, means something that will increase in value and at a time in the future will be redeemed for cash. It's nice that guitars increase in value, but for "investments," you'll do better in the traditional things, like stocks/bonds, real estate, etc., for which there's a much larger marketplace.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 5 Jun 2005 8:00 pm

In my opinion, I would invest in a steel guitar as something to learn or play for fun or maybe even to use to play with groups,bands or studio sessions and such. The old Emmons and Sho-Bud guitars are fine if you want to spend the money to have them. If you want a guitar that is basically trouble free then I would go in another direction. A person needs to be familiar with the old p/p guitars in order to keep them in tune and properly adjusted. Same way with the old Sho-Bud's. I've played and owned both over the years. If I were going to spend 3000.00 to 4000.00 on a guitar I would shop around and buy a new one with the very latest technology built into it. Then again everyone is different. I personally prefer a trouble free guitar myself. Good luck on your journey into the land of steel guitars. There's a lot of them out there to choose from.

Mark Herrick · Post by **Mark Herrick** » 5 Jun 2005 11:21 pm

<SMALL>...for which there's a much larger marketplace.</SMALL>

This is the key to making any investment pay off. If there isn't a market to sell it (a large enough demand) it ain't worth a dime.

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Bob Smith · Post by **Bob Smith** » 6 Jun 2005 4:16 am

Alot of the hype with vintage" anything" depends on what the "stars" play. Nothing affects an instuments value more than this.Its always been this way I believe. "Star" endorsement is powerful stuff. So maybe paying attention to todays montser players is a way to peek into the crystal ball. ( look who s name is on the 2 of most popular steel guitars ) Bob

Joe Adams · Post by **Joe Adams** » 6 Jun 2005 4:43 am

As in anything you invest in, it depends what kind buy you get in the beginning. If you run onto a really good deal, it would be wise to buy it. But, as with anything else, you have to know your "stuff"

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 6 Jun 2005 6:29 pm

Every steel guitar is an investment in insanity. Oh, you want to make money. I heard about that stuff once.

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 6 Jun 2005 6:51 pm

Steel guitar is an excellent investment.

The more time you put into practicing, the higher return on FUN!!!

Terry

at least that is what I've convinced myself of.