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Topic: 20 plain or 22 wound for Sho-Bud? |
Doug Jones
From:
Oregon & Florida
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Posted 16 May 2005 10:37 pm |
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| Soon I'll have my Super-Pro up and running. Any recommendations on the guage for E9 string 6? I always thought 20P was standard, but a few of my buddies think 22W is the way to go. Any comments and why would one be better thant the other. Thanks, DJ. |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 16 May 2005 11:06 pm
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Doug, look at Ricky Davis' set in the string store on the forum.
They definitly work best.
22w is listed
otherwise the whole thing goes pearshaped on me.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 17 May 2005 at 12:07 AM.] |
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Billy Carr
From:
Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)
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Posted 17 May 2005 2:26 am
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| Years ago I had a problem trying to keep the 6th string G# in tune on one of my guitars. I'm thinking it may have been an old p/p. The only string I could use that would actually tune true was a .020 plain. After that I started using the .020P on all of my guitars. Of course I'm sure with the way guitars have advanced in the last 25 years that you could probably use a .020P or .022W and either one would more than likely be ok. Here's a list of what I like on the E9th: .013P,.015P,11.5P,.014P,.017P,.020P,.024W,.030W,.034W & .036W(Using SIT's at the present time) |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 17 May 2005 4:49 am
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If you have to lower a whole step (or raise a whole step) that wound sixth may cause you trouble. Just takes A LOT OF THROW to move it a whole tone, especially on a knee lever where a lot of players put that change. The wound string takes more than double the throw on most guitars, since the core of a 022W is about half the size of a 020 or 022P.
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 17 May 2005 5:53 am
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Doug..Larry is correct.. I would not use a wound 6th if you plan to drop that G# down a full tone.
Sho Buds have enough trouble doing full tone lowers. You may or may not make it with the wound 6th..
If you are not going to drop the 6th, or are only going to drop a half, you should be ok..Another problem I have found when using a wound 6th is it alters the feel and throw of the 2nd pedal. Its a longer stiffer throw on the pedal.
I tried it on several guitars and like the feel better with an 020. I kind of like the sound of the wound 6,but it is a mellower, rounder tone of course.
It takes a bit of "twang" out of chords and single note stuff. Its personal taste of course, but I would use a .020 or .022 plain ... bob |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 17 May 2005 6:30 am
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If you are going to drop that 6th string to an F#, you'd best be doing it with a plain string. I gave up trying it with a wound one a loooooooooong time ago. 
Erv |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 17 May 2005 10:27 am
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My experience with Shobuds is one of audible cabinet drop, therefore my recommendation is to use a .022 wound for the sixth, as a wound string is not as susceptible to cabinet drop as a plain string.
Downside of this recommendation is as others have mentioned: You may not get a full-tone drop with the Shobud mechanism.
R B |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 17 May 2005 11:11 am
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| Richard.. Those are just two of the reasons, I have played my last Bud.. I ADORE the looks and sound. The mechanicals give me headaches. |
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Mike Taylor
From:
Wetumpka, AL
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Posted 17 May 2005 11:13 am
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Doug..
I have a Pro II custom with the whole step lower. The 22 wound just wouldn't lower all the way, put on a 20 plain and it works like a champ. On the flip side, the 20 plain goes dead quicker than the 22 wound..
Good luck..
Mike Taylor
ShoBud Pro II custom / Professional
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Larry Robbins
From:
Fort Edward, New York
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Posted 17 May 2005 12:57 pm
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I have a 73 ProII and a79/80 ProIII and both use the old SHO~BUD copedant, (I believe) just the G# to A change on the "B"
pedal. With this set up its just a matter of which string you like the sound of better.Recently, I just switched back to the 22w. Prefer the tone of the woundstring and it seems to stay in tune better for me.
But if I were to use the full tone lower,
The plain would probably work the best. But when you use the old, oddball setups like me it dosen't much matter.  Good Luck!
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SHO~BUDS, Steelkings,
Fender guitars,
Hilton pedals, Preston
covers, and Taylor(Tut, that is)Resos.
Still Country after all these years....
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 17 May 2005 1:05 pm
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| Larry.. nothing odd about those original simple copedents! Some of the best pedal steel music of all time was made WAY before every steel was bristling with pedals and knees! Those Bud mechanisms were designed before guys wanted to drop 3 strings a full tone on one lever or pedal! They work great for what they were DESIGNED to.. I wish I could find a 1965 Bud with a 2005 undercarriage!.... hmmm.....bob |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 17 May 2005 4:30 pm
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I use a 22 P on that G# to F# and it will go a lot lower thant that on my Pro-1. I like the old changer. Works good for me....al 
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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Larry Robbins
From:
Fort Edward, New York
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Posted 17 May 2005 5:07 pm
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Al,
is that the single raise/single lower...
brass barrels behind two hole pullers?
My fav. I still am amazed at what this older , simple mech. can do!
Thanks.
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SHO~BUDS, Steelkings,
Fender guitars,
Hilton pedals, Preston
covers, and Taylor(Tut, that is)Resos.
Still Country after all these years....
[This message was edited by Larry Robbins on 18 May 2005 at 05:15 PM.] |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 17 May 2005 5:33 pm
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| As a current Super Pro owner, 22W. Trust me ... |
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Doug Jones
From:
Oregon & Florida
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Posted 18 May 2005 10:35 am
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| Thanks everyone. I do plan to lower the G# to F#. With so many opinions I'll probably try 'em both and see what mechanically works best, but overall what tonally sounds best. |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 18 May 2005 12:18 pm
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Larry-yes, that is the Single Raise/ Lower with the Brass Barrel Tuners. I can get any pull I want, it is very easy to push the pedals and knee levers, I have 28 pulls on it but need only 22 rods.
It is just my speed, for me.I really like that natural Birdseye maple body with the inlays. Just beautiful. Tone to the Bone....al
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 18 May 2005 3:59 pm
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Hey Al
If your changer is single raise / single lower, and it's a 10-string guitar, HOW DO YOU GET 22 RODS THROUGH THE CHANGER???? Arent there only 20 holes????
(the answer may be obvious, but not to me -- I've never messed with Sho-Buds much)
Hope all is well in Michigan
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 18 May 2005 6:29 pm
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Hi Larry-Good to hear from you, how is the Florida kid? No Lt Zinn HOF show in Grand Rapids this year, I guess. At least I used to see you every year there. We miss you here. Would look forward to seeing you again.
About your questions- I have the two hole Bellcranks and John Coop made me some more nice ones.
I have 28 bellcranks on it and some are unused, but they are on the crosshaft in case I want to change a tuning.
It does not have the older cage like the old Professional I had, if that is what you are referring to. But I know what you mean.
Well, I don't need 20 rods but save 8 rods by using one rod for say 3 pulls. I like these barrel tuners for that.
Are you working on a new CD lately? Let me know when you do. I like to hear you play that universal 12........al
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 19 May 2005 12:04 pm
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Thanks Al
You'll always be one of my heros
I really missed seeing you this year too -- I may come up late summer. Maybe I'll try to get up to see you.
You mentioned that your Pro I has 22 pull rods and a single raise / single lower changer. I was just trying to figure out how you got more than 20 rods on that guitar. No big deal.
Best wishes to you my friend.
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 19 May 2005 1:03 pm
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I have a Franklin pedal and it drops the 6th string 22w
with no problem to that F#.
I have it on pedal 1 with 5 and 10 to A
I am not sure why Ricky hasn't logged in on this one.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 19 May 2005 at 02:07 PM.] |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 19 May 2005 1:20 pm
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Hi Larry, thanks for the kind words. I would look forward to seeing you this summer, you are welcome to stop in at my home anytime, just give me a call when you are up here. .....al
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 19 May 2005 5:07 pm
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| Quote: |
| I am not sure why Ricky hasn't logged in on this one |
Well David; probably because of my brutally honest opinion, is a little abrupt..ha...but Ok, here's what I think.
On a Sho-bud that is not dropping the 6th string a whole tone; CERTAINLY a wound .022.
If I wanted to drop the 6th string a whole tone on a knee lever; I would decide to use a .022wound anyway and talk myself out of having that worthless change; so that I can play IN TUNE.
If I wanted to drop a wound .022 on a pedal and it had enough throw on the pedal and particular finger to do it> yes indeed; I would do that. My Fulawka could drop a wound 6th string on a knee lever a whole tone no problem and guess what??? It would drop a wound 6th string TWO whole tones on a knee lever without any undo extra throw....yeeee haaaa; But we're talking Sho-bud's; so what I think is described above.
Simply; a plain 6th string at that position; will always play out of tune and yes that's including all the biggest famous players in the world; but one thing they know how to do; is PLAY that particular string IN TUNE; and it's not their guitar or how they tune; it's because of a very TRAINED ear; and 90% of the steel players don't have that kind of ear: so I will always suggest getting rid of the whole tone change; and play in TUNE with a wound string there.
Ricky |
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Larry Robbins
From:
Fort Edward, New York
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Posted 19 May 2005 5:59 pm
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Folks,
Thats why we love him!and...why WHENEVER I have a problem that I cant solve or just need some advice on my SHO~BUDS I get a hold of our good friend Ricky.... He allways tells it like it is...but he wont stear you wrong.You may not like what he says but,dang if aint right on!
Thanks Ricky![This message was edited by Larry Robbins on 19 May 2005 at 07:02 PM.] |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 19 May 2005 6:44 pm
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Thanks Larry; and by-golly, I don't even really like what I said just now. But Dangit; I have tried everything and every change and every possible String gauge and type wire, and I swear this is what I've come up with and feel very strongly about> even if the words are stronger than wanting to hear.
Everyone hears things different; but this is what I hear and is my opinion and it is NEVER my intention to harm anyone elses Opinion, and certainly I am in no way "holyier than thou"
Ricky
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Ricky Davis
Rebel™ and Ricky's Audio Clips
www.mightyfinemusic.com
Email Ricky: sshawaiian@austin.rr.com
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Rob Hamilton
From:
Acton, MA, USA
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Posted 19 May 2005 6:55 pm
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It's interesting that this topic came up now, as just yesterday, I changed all the strings on my old Sho-Bud Pro-I, and the new set had a 22-Plain on the 6th. I'd always used a 22-wound in the past. Upon tuning it up, of course, the B pedal adjustment was WAY out, so I adjusted it; but the result was that now my 6th and 3rd strings didn't track in pitch as I depressed the pedal. All the way up was ok, and all the way down was ok, but in between they took an entirely different pitch path.
The other result was the deadest sounding 6th string I've ever heard, especially in the upper register. I soon figured out what happened, found a 22-wound string, put that on, readjusted the B pedal, and all was right again.
I don't lower my 6th, so I'm not subject to that requirement. I think it's Jay Dee who says he raises his 7th instead of lowering the 6th; maybe that's why.
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Sho-Bud Pro-I, '62 Fender Vibrolux |
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