How to emulate lap steel tone?

Curt Trisko · Post by **Curt Trisko** » 24 Aug 2017 6:48 pm

I found a video on YouTube of a guy playing a lap steel with a string bender affixed to the bridge. What he's playing isn't complicated, but it's tasteful and the tone matches the song.

I'm trying to copy it on my steel, but the 5th string rings too bright and twangy no matter what I try. I have a multi-effects unit, and the only thing on it that I've tried which gets remotely close is the Fender Tweed amp emulator. Turning the mids and highs down on my Peavey Nashville 112 doesn't make much of a difference.

Is the tonal difference inherent in the pickup - and something that can't be overcome? To my ear, it sounds like my steel has much more string separation than the lap steel.

Here's the YouTube video I'm talking about. It's a good one and really show how you can do more with less: https://youtu.be/nLOOmtvC9Hc

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 24 Aug 2017 11:31 pm

I suspect it's largely in the hands.
I once played an Opry-type show where the staff steel player made his R&B Bud sound like Don Helms' Fender, but when he got up and sang and gave me the go-ahead to play it, without touching a knob on the amp, I sounded like a Sho-Bud version of me!
And he sat back down at it, and sounded like an old Fender

Per Berner · Post by **Per Berner** » 25 Aug 2017 12:11 am

I would try picking much closer to the fretboard, perhaps without fingerpicks.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 25 Aug 2017 2:20 am

Land's tale is salutary.

Jeff Mead · Post by **Jeff Mead** » 25 Aug 2017 2:48 am

Lane Gray wrote:I suspect it's largely in the hands.
I once played an Opry-type show where the staff steel player made his R&B Bud sound like Don Helms' Fender, but when he got up and sang and gave me the go-ahead to play it, without touching a knob on the amp, I sounded like a Sho-Bud version of me!
And he sat back down at it, and sounded like an old Fender

Strangely, I find exactly the opposite. If I'm doing a pedal steel gig and we do a Hank number, I put down the A&B pedals, lower my D to a C# and, using strings 4-9, play exactly what I would play on non-pedal. But the actual tone is completely different to my ear - same bar, same picks, same amp, same notes. It doesn't sound horrible but isn't the sound I have in my head for that song. Certainly, if I was on a recording session and playing that style as well as pedal style, I'd take both types of instrument.

Even though my non-pedal instruments sound different from each other (Stringmaster/trapezoid/Gibson P90) they are definitely in the same ballpark as each other and a different one from the pedal steel.

I wonder if it is to do with the strings being anchored to a moving bridge rather than a solid one, in the same way that a Strat and a Tele will always sound different from each other - even if they were fitted with identical pickups.

There are definitely times when I hear someone playing on the C6 neck without using the pedals and it still has that pedal steel tone.

MIchael Bean · Post by **MIchael Bean** » 25 Aug 2017 4:11 am

Using a Sarno Freeloader will give you control over your high end. I'm always adjusting the tone to fit the song I'm playing. Sometimes you want the tone to cut through, sometimes you want it to mellow out.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 25 Aug 2017 4:47 am

It is a tragedy but lap steels almost always have a fuller sound than pedalsteel. Play an old supro And then try and get that sound out of a pedalsteel. That's why steel players often bring along a lap steel.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 25 Aug 2017 8:30 am

Also, notice that in the referenced youtube clip, the player's wedding ring is on his picking hand. Very important.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 25 Aug 2017 8:58 am

I agree with Bob. Lap steels, especially older ones, have a more "ballsy" tone than pedal steels. I think the old pickup has a lot to do with it... single coil, fewer windings, lower resistance than modern pickups. The sound is more raw, less sterile than modern pickups. And the simple construction of the instrument might have something to with it. I've always believed that the excessive hardware on a pedal steel, including the changer mechanism, robs the instrument of tone. Lap steel is just a plank of wood with a pickup and strings. Having said that, I've played a lot of modern lap steels with humbucking pickups that sounded sterile to me.

Tim Heidner · Post by **Tim Heidner** » 25 Aug 2017 2:07 pm

He's got a lot of reverb going, maybe some delay and compression. That'll tamp down the twang. That's not an old lap steel he plays, it's a modern Duesenberg.

Don Hayes · Post by **Don Hayes** » 25 Aug 2017 3:11 pm

That is a $2k duesenberg fairytale.. I have the duesenberg pamona model, similar. There are two humbuckler pickups and the sound is switchable between very mellow and a little more bright. I play a gfi ultra through the same amp set-up via an AB switch and the sound is More "PSG"... Not that that's a bad thing. I like both

Don Hayes · Post by **Don Hayes** » 25 Aug 2017 3:40 pm

That is a $2k duesenberg fairytale.. I have the duesenberg pamona model, similar. There are two humbuckler pickups and the sound is switchable between very mellow and a little more bright. I play a gfi ultra through the same amp set-up via an AB switch and the sound is More "PSG"... Not that that's a bad thing. I like both

Curt Trisko · Post by **Curt Trisko** » 25 Aug 2017 6:52 pm

Maybe his whole-tone raise is on a wound string instead of a plain one?

I tried to look up the suggested string gauges for Duesenberg Fairytale online, but didn't see anything.

Tim Heidner · Post by **Tim Heidner** » 25 Aug 2017 6:56 pm

He doesn't use a standard pedal steel tuning like AB pedals, he has something else going on. He has a Facebook page, I've seen him post his tuning on FB before, but I can't recall exactly what it is.
I found his tuning but he didn't say what the pedals are doing:
Gmaj7/9 (GBDF#AD)ï»¿

Jim Robbins · Post by **Jim Robbins** » 25 Aug 2017 7:51 pm

No fingerpicks.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 26 Aug 2017 12:22 pm

Using a smaller bar will change your left hand technique as well to what you'd be doing with a smaller, non-pedal guitar.

Curt Trisko · Post by **Curt Trisko** » 28 Aug 2017 12:46 pm

Thanks for all the responses!

Here's an update. Playing without my picks and really working on my pick-less picking technique appears to be my best bet. That opens a whole new world on the steel for me. Eliminating the string attack on the 5th string looks like it may get me in the neighborhood of the tone I'm looking for... but it's too early to tell if getting it consistently right is reasonably feasible. It gets complicated when switching between different effects because they each cause different tonal side-effects when I manipulate the strings with different touches. I bet the player in the video has higher quality effects/plug-ins than me which don't have many of the undesirable side-effects.

For most of your responses, I can't tell if you're just referring to the overall tonal differences between lap steels and pedal steels or if they're specific to my issue with the 5th string. I think the distinction matters because my biggest challenge is getting the relative tonal difference between the 5th string and the rest to match the video... not just the general tone.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 28 Aug 2017 3:13 pm

It might be easier on the C6 tuning. The range of the tuning along with the larger string gauges lend a more mellow tone.

Get your self a D10, learn the C neck or a 12 string U12 E9/B6. Watch and listen to this pro with some pretty good lap steel tone on a pedal steel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoN-_HY_WQw

Alternately, lower your E string a 1/2 tone and go back 2 frets playing in B6 for some of this feel.

I always thought that the old solid bodied lap steels had a tone that you just couldn't find with pedal steels, but after listening to Gary here, I have to say a large part of the sound is in the way you think and approach the music. JMO.

Curt Trisko · Post by **Curt Trisko** » 4 Sep 2017 8:17 pm

Here's my final product for this project:

https://youtu.be/2PIJUwao1Bg

I'm playing over the recording and at about the same volume, so you'll have to concentrate to distinguish between the lap steel and the pedal steel. I got pretty close with the tone, but didn't manage to get that 'growling' sound. I used a bunch of reverb and a bunch of compression. In trying to approximate the tone, I experimented with adding distortion and using the Fender tweed amp simulator on my multi-effect unit, but I don't think it got me any closer to the lap steel tone.

As you can hear, my 5th string sticks out despite me trying my best with my picking technique to make it blend the way that it does with the lap steel in the recording. My gut tells me that he was using a wound string for the string that has his whole tone raises and that's what the difference is.

Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 4 Sep 2017 9:12 pm

You're using a bullet bar and he's using a Stevens style bar. I know my dobro doesn't sound the same when I use a bullet bar versus a Stevens bar. I bet the pedal steel would also sound somewhat different depending on the bar you are using. There must be a reason Robert Randolph uses a Stevens bar.