| Author |
Topic: GeorgeBoards New Polymer Goodies to talk about - DIY EyeDeer |
George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
|
|
|
|
John Dahms
From:
Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA
|
Posted 3 Aug 2017 4:57 pm |
|
Very short scale.
_________________
Time flies like an eagle
Fruit flies like a banana. |
|
|
|
Former Member
|
Posted 3 Aug 2017 5:04 pm
|
|
Uh, yeah but will it come in lefty? 
You know, I've wondered what a CG lap would sound like!
I tried to get Blackbird guitars to build a square neck acoustic. --Didn't happen.. |
|
|
|
George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
|
Posted 3 Aug 2017 6:25 pm Carbon Fiber Lap Steel - ? - YES
|
|
Glad you asked Ron , YES I can make Left Play versions No Problemos.
We have been doing intense Research and Development with this Polymer material.
I have parts made from the Polymer infused with Graphite - Carbon Fiber - Stainless Steel.
My near Future Goal is to make Full Sized GB's for sale in one or more of the materials.
GeorgeBoards Manufacturing is already in process with a full sized Rock-It proto.
Sonically I am fully convinced this material sounds as good or better than Bakelite.
Our high tech process , is a variation of CNC with .002 tolerances.
Light years more accurate than pour molded carcinogenic material Dupont plagued the world with for so many years.
Our material is actually Bio-Degradable if it ever hits a landfill it will go back to nature with no ill effect.
In the mean while I invite more serious talk about this new process,
and I invite more more "Caption Needed" commentary about our short scale >>> have at it folks open season on the Jokes. 
_________________
GeorgeBoards S8 Non Pedal Steel Guitar Instruments
Maker of One of a Kind Works of Art that play music too.
Instructional DVDs
YouTube Channel |
|
|
|
Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 3 Aug 2017 6:53 pm
|
|
Replacing bakelite with material that will work in place of it, is a great idea, making way for different plan-forms of lap steels !
I love my bakelite, but it's old tech too of course.. |
|
|
|
Phillip Vaught
From:
Dallas,Texas, USA
|
Posted 4 Aug 2017 4:15 am
|
|
| Sounds like it will be another great steel by Georgeboards and i need one of those pictured to put on my key chain.. |
|
|
|
Jerry Wagner
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 4 Aug 2017 6:39 am
|
|
| I've been wondering when someone would do this. I suggested the idea to Joe Luttwak at Blackbird Guitars a couple years ago. I don't think he was even aware of Ric Bakelites, because he seemed impressed with their appearance when I sent him a link. He had so many other projects going he didn't have time for it. Seems to me the big plus would be thermal stability. I think the material composition can be adjusted to almost totally eliminate thermal expansion. Bakelite & aluminum have the density to produce that fabulous Ric tone, but they don't stay in tune very well in your lap or direct sunlight do they? |
|
|
|
Former Member
|
Posted 4 Aug 2017 4:24 pm
|
|
carbon fiber guitars sound very bright!
Often too bright for most players, at least flatpick strummers. -IMO
I've had a BB lucky 13 for a few years now, and use chromes, or some other flat wounds to tone it down a bit.
Also, Joe's invention of a hollow neck gives the guitar this slight echo, or extra sustain with a slight decay that is very pleasant. unfortunately the neck has a bit of a bow and have no idea how to fix it.
I would design a CF lap with a narrow hollow neck chamber, PU in the neck like a NYer, Humbucker, 8 strings, Black CF cloth, with split Parallelogram neck inlays like an ES-175, black hardware, black locking Sperzels. Toned for Joe Pass, Pat martino, not Rock.
That would be it..
George??
|
|
|
|
George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
|
Posted 5 Aug 2017 5:33 am Polymer
|
|
Thanks fellow for the high tech commentaries.
I worked at a audio company in Southern California for 10 years 1990-99 that pioneered and patented the Fabric Carbon Fiber process for concert loudspeakers.
These folks were Americas Cup Racers and had big bucks to buy up tons of abandoned pre impregnated Carbon Fabric from the Defense industry that left the west coast for lower workmans comp fees.
Very familiar with the whole process.
What I am doing is completely different.
This technology has taken off in the last 5 years and now is spreading into a exponential widening area of numerous industries.
3D Printing.
This is what we call additive manufacture , meaning a minimal of material waste during production. Opposed to Subtractive which is for example a machine shop or wood cnc takes a billet block and sculpts away until the item reveals. This process leaves a massive amount of waste that needs to dealt with.
A lot of the 3D things we see now of days are toy and proto items.
As we have done our extensive R&D - the latest printers and widening materials are producing Final Useable Parts for some incredible uses.
Now they are printing -- some examples are Prosthetics, Limbs - Dental - Heart Valves and so much more.
One printer is making parts that come off the printer bed and go directly into Formula 1 Racing engines. Serious goodies.
Now to our printed Steel Guitar Parts.
I am currently printing small parts that are useable right now with Polymer composites of Carbon Fibers - Graphite - Stainless Steel,
looking into Brass - Bronze - Silver - Gold.
The latest Polymer is heat treatable after production to make it 5 times more strong.
The carbon makes the polymer 5 times more strong before the heat treatment.
The Graphite makes it 5 times stronger and is conductive,
places like Texas Instruments are printing circuit boards traces at microscopic levels for next generation electronics.
Sonically there is no comparison the Fabric Carbon Products
the setup to produce is a fraction of the cost, the safety factor is far greater, the environmental impact is far below 1 percent.
This material is much closer to our familiar Bakelite -
except we can design and extrude at .002 tolerance all via computer programming.
Additionally it is rugged as strong as or more than Aluminum - Dense - sonically pleasing too.
_________________
GeorgeBoards S8 Non Pedal Steel Guitar Instruments
Maker of One of a Kind Works of Art that play music too.
Instructional DVDs
YouTube Channel |
|
|
|
Nic Sanford
From:
Oklahoma
|
Posted 5 Aug 2017 5:01 pm
|
|
| Exciting stuff! Should I start saving, now? |
|
|
|
David M Brown
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 6 Aug 2017 8:02 am
|
|
| Sounds good, keep up the R and D! |
|
|
|
Jerry Wagner
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 6 Aug 2017 9:41 pm
|
|
Hey George,
Have you looked at the Ric Academy/ACE guitars? Great tone & a great piece of Bakelite industrial design. Looking forward to see your ideas for this new guitar develop. |
|
|
|
Jerry Wagner
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 7 Aug 2017 6:55 am
|
|
"carbon fiber guitars sound very bright!"
Apparently high density material has that effect. I think most Ric Bakelite & Frypan players dial the treble at the amp way, way back. Todd Clinesmith says he packs the hollow neck on his cast aluminum 8-string guitars with (high frequency?) sound absorbing paper, like the the stamped-metal body Rics. I think I read on a Forum post that Dick McIntire filled some hollow Frypan necks with plaster of Paris and that some Frypans were made with solid necks. The Ric Bakelites, both B6 & Academy/ ACE, have ribbed necks, not hollow, but you still need to kill the treble output. |
|
|
|
Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
|
Posted 7 Aug 2017 8:38 am Hi George
|
|
Hi George,
"Bio-Degradable if it ever hits a landfill it will go back to nature with no ill effect"
Think I'd get ill at the thought of a Georgeboard hitting a landfill!  
Nice work. I'm looking forward to meet you.
Some years ago a company here in Eugene (Moses Graphite owned by a friend of mine, Steve Mosher*) made a graphite body for Sierra just before they stopped building PSG's for a while.
*He sometimes imbeds our inlays into the CG necks he makes.
I think that carbon graphite is the future direction for many steel companies that we'll be seeing some time soon. I think MSA is already building a model like that.
CG could even be covered with veneer for people like me who love the look of wood.
Good luck with your future plans,
Andy
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
|
|
|
George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
|
Posted 7 Aug 2017 9:18 am More Information
|
|
Thanks everyone for the topic replies.
So far as comparing our approach to all of that poured molding - everything you are talking about is 100 year old technology and materials.
Even the Carbon Fiber Fabric materials are yesterday's news compared to where I am at.
Fast Forward to the now and future of Aerospace industry - medical and Lap Steel Guitar Manufacturing.
3D printable internal and external structures that add extra strength, provide cushioning, increase porosity, or simply reduce the weight of your design. Which means that the limitations and issues related to computation of complex structures are completely bypassed.
Precisely designed structures to create shapes that fit the needs of strength, flexibility and rigidness while still keeping them as light as possible. Manufacturing similar lightweight structures has always been challenging and often impossible to achieve with traditional manufacturing technologies.
One of the key advantages of 3D Printing is the flexibility to create shapes which are impossible or too costly to produce with traditional technologies.
With its huge degree of design freedom, 3D Printing has introduced a new way of thinking about design.
Benefit from biomimicry and bionic engineering design possibilities
Increase grip
Improve aerodynamic properties
Change acoustic properties
Control density with perforations
Are just a few of the advantages of where we are going with this applied to non pedal steel manufacturing.
_________________
GeorgeBoards S8 Non Pedal Steel Guitar Instruments
Maker of One of a Kind Works of Art that play music too.
Instructional DVDs
YouTube Channel |
|
|
|
David Knutson
From:
Cowichan Valley, Canada
|
Posted 7 Aug 2017 5:00 pm
|
|
Wow, George . . . This certainly is the future (and present, obviously) of manufacturing of so many things. Eager to hear your first sound samples, which I am sure will be top shelf. But can they ever be as pretty as your wooden ones?
Back to the short scale RockIt - is b0b going to carry string sets for it?
_________________
David K |
|
|
|
George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
|
Posted 7 Aug 2017 5:54 pm String Sets
|
|
Thanks David
I am sure b0b is already packing up sets as we espeak,
Jeff Strauss did say he thought it would be perfect for playing Tiny Bubbles.
I think it was Ford who said , "they come in any color so long as it is black". They seem to have changed manufacturing a little bit.
In actuality many of the polymers come in all sorts of colors , wood - and so on. There are companies 3D printing Food - Clothing - Dentures - it's amazing how much is going on.
We are now entering into AeroSpace materials and Laser 3D building with job shops who already make parts for AirBus - NASA - Formula 1 Racing - , these are a polymer composite Aluminum strong enough to build Airplane Bulkheads and wing parts.
To answer the question , No they will not be Exotic Wood - I still have 36 of those no one from the Forum is buying , so the supply is plenty for a long time to come. I've made over 500 wooden ships , and have them is every USA state and over 20 countries worldwide, my goal was realized long ago.
Here is a sample photo of a practical steel guitar product we are currently making for sale.
Carbon Fiber polymer composite.
Our new leg sockets come with smaller 1.75" footprint requires 1 single 45mm forstner drill bit (I got mine on line for under 15 dollars).
1/2 X13 threads - 12 degree angle - lower cost - rugged - durable - 3/4" depth - considerably easier to install flush to the body.
I can make these with Stainless Steel Polymer Composite too.
_________________
GeorgeBoards S8 Non Pedal Steel Guitar Instruments
Maker of One of a Kind Works of Art that play music too.
Instructional DVDs
YouTube Channel |
|
|
|
David M Brown
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 7 Aug 2017 7:57 pm
|
|
I'm game for some new technology legs for steel guitars.
Remember, this is the instrument that was innovative before - resonator cones, amplification, etc.
Why not use new materials? |
|
|
|
Phillip Vaught
From:
Dallas,Texas, USA
|
Posted 11 Aug 2017 11:43 am g b rock it
|
|
| thanks George i received mine in the mail today. |
|
|
|
W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
|
Posted 11 Aug 2017 12:12 pm
|
|
| Jerry Wagner wrote: |
"carbon fiber guitars sound very bright!"
Apparently high density material has that effect. I think most Ric Bakelite & Frypan players dial the treble at the amp way, way back. Todd Clinesmith says he packs the hollow neck on his cast aluminum 8-string guitars with (high frequency?) sound absorbing paper, like the the stamped-metal body Rics. I think I read on a Forum post that Dick McIntire filled some hollow Frypan necks with plaster of Paris and that some Frypans were made with solid necks. The Ric Bakelites, both B6 & Academy/ ACE, have ribbed necks, not hollow, but you still need to kill the treble output. |
I just wanted to make a comment here about this matter of brightness. I build non-pedal steel guitars from solid aluminum. Yes, being a relatively dense material compared to wood, it does produce a very bright tone. I took measures to compensate, both in the design of the pickups that I make, and their placement, that is, the distance between the pickup and the bridge. I'm certain George is aware of these things, and will know how to manage, if indeed there is a brightness treble problem.
Wayne
_________________
I am on Facebook as Innovative Guitars. Photos of all my work in photo album. I no longer make lap steels, but still make tone bars. |
|
|
|
Former Member
|
Posted 12 Aug 2017 5:04 am Fingerpicks
|
|
George,
Just curious,
Could you 3D thumb and fingerpicks with some material that was similar to bare finger tips? |
|
|
|
George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
|
Posted 12 Aug 2017 6:37 am Picks ?
|
|
Hello from George -io
Ron -- Picks , we could , two immediate thoughts,
1) Carbon - Alumide - Plain Polymer all are 10,000 times denser than human skin. It would sort of feel like wearing dentures on the finger tips no feeling of the contact like skin does.
They would last longer than finger skin will - would need to do a 1/2 life calculation to know how many hundreds of years they would last.
2) Not cost effective if a budget is a factor, with a 3D scan of the individual fingers could make them fit like getting a prosthetic or denture, if you are interested in paying a few hundred dollars for a set of picks.
_________________________________
Comparing Polymer materials to Fabric Carbon process.
When I worked at the concert loudspeaker factory , they needed to have the interior of the seamless cabinets acoustically treated to prevent interior ringing or whatever it is called. This is basically what is being talked about when someone say's Guitars are sharp tenny sounding. The loudspeakers were infused with a fiberglass honeycomb to act as a interior softening for sonic quality. The best I know that is not done on guitar interiors.
When thinking of Fabric Carbon material - compare it to making a boat hull, or spa - swimming pool. All of these products are made with a negative mold and the fabric is laid on similar to the way they make fiberglass molded items. Layers of fabric glued with some sort of toxic liquid that dries to a glass like finish. This is why those guitars are shrill sounding.
The 3D additive manufacture process , can have surface texture included as part of the material , this is acoustical treatment to balance the interior ringing effect as it is made. No need to stuff news paper or similar material to reduce ringing which is a non consistent method of dampening.
No autoclave ovens to bake the shell as required with Carbon Fabric process - No Toxic Fumes - No Tyvec Space suits - no respirators - little if any environmental impact required to create the product.
_________________
GeorgeBoards S8 Non Pedal Steel Guitar Instruments
Maker of One of a Kind Works of Art that play music too.
Instructional DVDs
YouTube Channel |
|
|
|
George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
|
Posted 14 Aug 2017 12:44 pm How to make an instant Lap Steel - What do you Think ?
|
|
We have come up with a cool item in design , and I am hoping for input from my forum friends.
Our 3D designer has created a Head Stock that attaches to the DIY Builders wood block. Solid Polymer for maximum strength.
Specs --
8 String , and 6 string versions, set up for 1-3/4" thickness wood - has holes to use 2 Dowel rods to add strength - Has an additional stiffener under the head to add major support to help prevent Deflection. Setup for 10mm tuners - like Grovers and many high quality imports. Head thickness = .580 (thick 1/2 inch)
You inlay it at the head end of your plank - the dowels add strength , 4 down holes for screws into the wood.
The fretboard will cover all of the screws and joint union seams. Holes for the nut are filled with a wood rod to make for easy hold down screws.
As with all of our Kits we have done the difficult part for you -- attach this and more parts we supply , and Presto Instant Lap Steel.
Lettuce know what you think and ask questions please.
_________________
GeorgeBoards S8 Non Pedal Steel Guitar Instruments
Maker of One of a Kind Works of Art that play music too.
Instructional DVDs
YouTube Channel |
|
|
|
Bill Groner
From:
QUAKERTOWN, PA
|
Posted 14 Aug 2017 2:19 pm Re: How to make an instant Lap Steel - What do you Think ?
|
|
| George Piburn wrote: |
We have come up with a cool item in design , and I am hoping for input from my forum friends.
Our 3D designer has created a Head Stock that attaches to the DIY Builders wood block. Solid Polymer for maximum strength.
Specs --
8 String , and 6 string versions, set up for 1-3/4" thickness wood - has holes to use 2 Dowel rods to add strength - Has an additional stiffener under the head to add major support to help prevent Deflection. Setup for 10mm tuners - like Grovers and many high quality imports. Head thickness = .580 (thick 1/2 inch)
You inlay it at the head end of your plank - the dowels add strength , 4 down holes for screws into the wood.
The fretboard will cover all of the screws and joint union seams. Holes for the nut are filled with a wood rod to make for easy hold down screws.
As with all of our Kits we have done the difficult part for you -- attach this and more parts we supply , and Presto Instant Lap Steel.
Lettuce know what you think and ask questions please.
|
Hmmmmmm!
_________________
Currently own, 6 Groner-tone lap steels, one 1953 Alamo Lap steel, Roland Cube, Fender Champion 40 |
|
|
|
Bill Groner
From:
QUAKERTOWN, PA
|
Posted 14 Aug 2017 2:22 pm
|
|
Sort of what you and I were talking about last Friday? I didn't make mine quite like yours, but the idea was similar. Might have it done in another week or so. If anyone is interested I will post pictures before I assemble it. Very nice looking unit....George-io
_________________
Currently own, 6 Groner-tone lap steels, one 1953 Alamo Lap steel, Roland Cube, Fender Champion 40 |
|
|
|
