The Steel Guitar Forum

Lately I got a fire under my ass for practicing. dont know where it came from but boy am I glad it did. getting better every day. I forgot how much daily practice can help ! Mostly been working on right hand blocking, some mooney licks, and jeff newmans someone to give my love to. I also have a gig relatively local this weekend where I'll get to cover some Moon. so much better than the modern country gigs which did not inspire me to practice in the least ! what you all working on ?

Karen,you're right about practice...etc.Working on Sinatra,Bennett from 40's,50's on C6.Chord extensions, diminished,7#11,7#5,7sus to infinity and beyond.Lost,beyond my grasp, teetering over the abyss, crashing and burning.Fun I guess.

First hour of daily practice:
Intonation, lately long tones over drones

Rhythmic phrasing, picking patterns. I've been trying to get my phrasing more accurate by practicing quintuplets in a couple ways. First by playing 5 over a bar of 4 and then by playing regular 16th notes in 5 note phrases.

Second hour:

I'll play over tunes. Usually jazz of some sort or
scales and licks. I am trying to wrap my head around that Hal Rugg thing on strings 2,3 and 4 these days.

After that I hit music I need to get together for gigs.

Lately I've been spending more time tuning then usual. I am trying out tuning straight up or at least closer to it.

Sometimes (like today) my second hour will be spent trying to figure out some cool sounding lick I heard on a youtube that somebody posted.

I've always enjoyed practicing. It feels good to focus on something , give my brain a workout and let the world fall away. It takes a couple hours for me to clear out the clutter in my head so progress can be made and the good ideas take form.

This may just sound like a bunch of wu-wu, but I've been working on playing off the lyrics more, or even just letting my imagination run wild with whatever meaning for the song my brain feels like giving it in the moment, and playing from there. When I can get there, phrasing, register, blocking... all of it is just details that don't really need a thought.

Ive made a decision to decline work I find unrewarding on a musical level. Too many recent gigs that make me wonder "why am I doing this ?"... Not worth the meager pay, and music that doesnt interest me. Id rather practice with what little time I have.

So Ive declined the gigs that arent stimulating, and Im happier. Im not desperate to play, I should have made this decision sooner.

As a result, Im playing out a bit less, but those gigs were not making me a better player.

As a result, I have more time to PRACTICE. Im much happier, and I believe it pays off on the gigs that mean something to me.

Steve Spitz wrote:Ive made a decision to decline work I find unrewarding on a musical level. Too many recent gigs that make me wonder "why am I doing this ?"... Not worth the meager pay, and music that doesnt interest me. Id rather practice with what little time I have.

So Ive declined the gigs that arent stimulating, and Im happier. Im not desperate to play, I should have made this decision sooner.

As a result, Im playing out a bit less, but those gigs were not making me a better player.

As a result, I have more time to PRACTICE. Im much happier, and I believe it pays off on the gigs that mean something to me.

i hear you on that !!

This thread reminds me of a story (I might have told it before):
When I was taking Buddy's C6th seminar at Jeffran, in maybe '87, by the end of the day, most students were pretty fried from taking it all in.
I was not sleeping in the bunkhouse, but one morning, I heard a little extra commotion and come to find out that Buddy had parked a recorder, with a recording of the licks we had been learning, under the bunkhouse, on a timer, set to play at some crazy hour, in the middle of the night.
Maybe he was trying an experiment on subliminal steel learning.
Some pics of Jeff and others:
Jeff @ Pete Drake's studio-later 80's

Jeff @ convention

Jeff Speedy & Lloyd @ Scotty's

Gigs for me these days are few and far between. I played one last month but don't know when the next one will be. I realize I am not the player I could be by now, even though I started almost twenty years ago there have been periods of inactivity due to various circumstances. I really hope to be able to hang on to it from now on. It is simply like, when I practice on any given day, I feel like it is time that's not wasted, it really makes me feel better.I have no set practice schedule, lately I've been working on some stuff from the early days of E9 pedal steel, "going back to where it all started", like Webb Pierce, Kitty Wells, some Faron Young and last night Ernest Tubb & the Texas Troubadours "Midnight Jamboree" (available on YouTube) when Buddy Emmons was in the band and some incredible guests. It really opened up doors. And today I finally got reunited with my biggest love the Fender D-8 console steel, so I'll also be working on a lot of non-pedal material. My next goal has to be to finally find a band again, one that sounds as retro as possible. May be just a dream, but who knows...

Bob Hofnarr wrote:

"Lately I've been spending more time tuning then usual. I am trying out tuning straight up or at least closer to it."

I know there are people who tune "straight up", but all the seminars I have been to and asked the question I am told people who tune that way sound out of tune.

Why are you trying to tune closer to straight up or closer to it?

Do you think its a matter of teaching your ear to hear differently?

Thanks

I tune 100% straight up, and do pretty well, except when I screw up.. I play in a 6th tuning, which I've heard is more forgiving (don't know this for sure), but the main thing for me is to have all the notes where I expect them to be, tuning wise, and play a lot pedals up when doing single notes.

By the way, this method is generally considered heretical by many players, but in the context I play in (mainly straight ahead jazz) it's just easier for me.

I hope my comment doesn't start an argument... it's just my way

As far as practicing goes, I do 3-6 hours a day, with a wide range of practicing bop heads, chordal moves, various melodic minor arpeggios, etc, etc, etc...... lots of technique stuff, too

I just do whatever Christopher tells me to do. Seems to be working...

Darrell Criswell wrote:Bob Hofnarr wrote:

"Lately I've been spending more time tuning then usual. I am trying out tuning straight up or at least closer to it."

I know there are people who tune "straight up", but all the seminars I have been to and asked the question I am told people who tune that way sound out of tune.

Why are you trying to tune closer to straight up or closer to it?

Do you think its a matter of teaching your ear to hear differently?

Thanks

Playing in tune and how you tune are different things. So much depends on context it is not a productive thing to debate. I think I am constantly working on teaching my ears to hear differently and I am currently tuning very close to straight up. The way I look at it is if I learn how to play in tune I should be able to do it with any tuning method. And conversely if I can't play in tune tuning straight up I most likely can't play in tune when I tune the beats out.

One way to investigate intonation on the steel is to try to play a scale on one string in tune along with a chord drone. Make sure each note sounds just right. Record it so you can be sure.

hahah

Jim - you are hilarious

Everything Bob's saying. I don't know if my sense of pitch is getting better with age ,or worse, but it seems I'm tuning a lot lately. I can never get it where every change sounds ok to me.

Bob Hoffnar wrote:

"So much depends on context it is not a productive thing to debate."

Thanks Bob, I understand the problems of discussing this topic. Are there other instruments in which there is a similar argument about whether to tune "straight up" or to tune the beats out?

No, there isn't, the PSG is the only one tuned to a temper tuning. I figure I have been playing 50 less then Jeff and Buddy have, so I'll just play what ever I want. How would they know the right tuning?. Right?

No other instrument has been argued about over it's tuning more then the steel. The only thing argued more is religion, and who is right on it. Nobody wants to admit being wrong. God forbid. Have a good one everyone.

Darrell Criswell wrote:Bob Hoffnar wrote:

"So much depends on context it is not a productive thing to debate."

Thanks Bob, I understand the problems of discussing this topic. Are there other instruments in which there is a similar argument about whether to tune "straight up" or to tune the beats out?

Yes. Most all classical players deal with this constantly. I've spent time in sectional rehearsals with french horn players and intonation is much more difficult for them then steel players. Contemporary classical players need to have a control of pitch that astonishing. There are all sorts of arguments and struggles about intonation. It goes way past tuning straight up or not.

I got my best insights into tuning from classical players that I was in the studio or on the road with. They hear everything. It's scary. I've had viola players tell me what string was slightly flat on my steel after a blown take.

Yes, that is where most is at. I ran into it a couple times too. Ah, Bob let's not do to much. This darn thing has been a on going thing for years. All because of a darn steel guitar. It is all great.

Bob: Thanks so much for your insight. I know this topic has been discussed to death, I was not trying to resurrect it, I just wanted to understand something about it, as most of the explanations are limited to this is the right way, that is the wrong way, and this is how I do it. Thanks again.

Darrell, There is only a right and wrong way. You will figure it out and go your way. It is really not so hard. It's only at the beginning. You will change many times as you go on. Just have fun, and love what you do.

I play (mostly) 10-string NON-pedal A6th these days, but still enough of a 5+5 10-string C6th tuning so that everything HAS to be straight up. Every lower string can be a root, and I play HOLDING holding a forward slant position in non-pedal some of the time too, so every string can be a root there too - how can you NOT tune straight up? I tried a few of these wacky offsets, they were inserting 13 and 17-cent errors in the tuning right off the bat - no comprende. Even-tempered tuning can insert 15 and 17 cent errors (OFF of just intonation) TOO, but these weren't even the SAME ERRORS! Or attempting to correct for them.... And you can easily hear 3 or 4 cent errors when your ear's tuned up -> Shoulda been a drummer, playing like one more anyway. Neil Young is a GOOD lead guitarist... microtones are a state of mind, every band Derek Trucks plays in has a piano, so THOSE arenn't MICRO-tones, they're INFLECTIONS.... etc. It's just intonation?

I have the write up that was done years ago, when the E's on the PSG went to 442.5 Hz, and all the information on why it was done this way. If anyone would like it, I will put it on here. I just don't want to start a big ruckus. As I said before, no one wants to admit being wrong. I have been wrong millions of time. The only times that still bothers me, is did I make the right choice with my men in Vietnam, could I have saved more. I will die with that thought, and never get over it. It is very well written, and very easy to understand. I have been tuning to it for over 30 years. It is all what works for you. As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. I love all you guys and this forum.

Jim:

I would appreciate getting the write up.

I am not trying to argue about anything just trying to understand. Most of the seminars I have been to with really famous steelers say if you tune straight up you will be out of tune, but some people say they tune straight up. I am just trying to understand why there can be such a difference of opinion and what is reponsible for it.

Yes Darrell, I know your not. This is one problem when trying to talk on a message center. You don't hear the person tone of voice or the way they are saying it. Sometimes what you say is taken wrong, then there are those who just take everything wrong. I have gone through what you are too. I think most have. My understanding is, when you tune straight up, your guitar is in tune to its self, then the difference is taken up, when you play with a band by the bar. For years they tuned the E's to 440, but most other string were tuned higher or lower. My understanding is that the steel is the only instrument, that nothing is tuned to 440. All the open strings are higher or lower then 440. All the pedals and levers are tuned the same higher or lower. I have always used what Jeff Newman put out, and he and Buddy Emmons worked on these for years. As I said I have a lot of information they put together. If you e-mail me, I would be more then glad to send you everything I have on this, then you can make up your on mind. I play guitar, mandolin, and bass. They are tuned at 440. The steel has been the only one different, and I don't think the strings on a piano are tuned straight up either, but not sure, never tried to tune one. You can also PM me. Lots of luck.

I do have the impression it is the E9th tuning ONLY that is held to benefit from tuning... like some wierdo foreigner (might as well cause some more ruckus too while we're at it). Don't get me WRONG... some of my best frenns are weirdos....