The Steel Guitar Forum

Hello all, my RKL on my student model GFI raises strings 1 & 7 half step to G, but I don't seem to know what to do with it. I can work it in here and there, but my question is, if this is a good change, A: why is it not one most pro model guitars have, and, B: if it is rarely used, why do student model seem to always have this change? I would rather the lever raise 1&2 a whole tone. Maybe I just don't know how to use this lever yet, but I just don't understand why a change is included on the instrument designed to I troduce us newbies to playing, if it isn't a change we will hear used very much, if at all??? Any guidance for me?

The G note makes a 7 chord with A&B pedals down. A more common change for that lever is to lower 6 a whole step G#-F# instead of raising 7 to G. Most modern pro level guitars have all-pull changers that allow you to raise and lower the same string simultaneously to get an in-between note, called a "split". When the B pedal and lever are engaged at the same time you get the G on 6, but lots of other cool possibilities too. Your GFI (like many student model guitars) has a pull-release changer and can't do this.

Yeah I have learned I can make a 7th for pedal down chords. I didn't realize the change system would be the reason why this 7 string change is on this lever. Doesn't a lot of guitars have a change to raise strings 1 & 2 a whole tone? I guess I'm curious why companies wouldn't include a change that could be utilized in more situations

My theory is that lever is one of the simplest and most trouble free levers one can put on a PSG. It's only a half step raise on each of two strings. Nothing complicated. It's easy for the changer and easy to make it work well.

Since I am my own mechanic, I have that lever on my steel. But it is the least used of all my knee levers. There are uses of it, but it's not as versatile as some other possibilities.

The 1st and 2nd string raise is a newer change.
On student models, it's problematic because raising and lowering the same string increases complexity of a pull-release guitar,and most student models are pull-release.

I would rather the lever raise 1&2 a whole tone.

What you might be thinking is raise 1 a whole tone and 2 a half tone. Both a whole tone would be a very unusual lever.

I would just leave things the way they are and concentrate on learning the neck. There are usually 3 ways to play the same lick on just about any set up.

For the 1st and 2nd string raise, as long as you're above the 4th fret or so you can pull string 1 with your ring finger behind the bar; as the first string gets to G#, the second string gets pulled to VERY close to E.

Yea Bob I thibk you're right about the 1&2 change I'm thinking of. Maybe I'm getting F16 syndrome (wanting to fly like a fighter jet, when I'm still learning to operate a cesna!) But you hear things, you wanna do yhem. Patience IS A VIRTUE, no question about that. And it's one yhe good Lord is working on me with for sure

Yhe behind the bar string bends.....I thought I only had yo worry about those with my reso Lane !!!!

I have that lever on my guitars and use it a lot. With pedals down, raising and lowering the 7th string is a nice option for fills.

Jim,
The way I play that 1st and 2nd string lick without that lever is:

In G, I play strings 1 and 2 at the 3rd fret then I slide the bar up 2 frets as I engage the 2nd string 1/2 step lower then slide back down releasing the lever.

I can't get all the options that I would get if I could do everything on one fret but I can get that sound if I need it.

What I'm thinking about is that I am playing a diatonic scale in 3rds.

Thabks Bob! I have found out how to do without the 5th string lower (vertical) so I huess it's a matter of working with what you have to get the same aound. After all, look at Lloyd Greens copedent and listen to gis so7nds!! Although I'm not great at bar slants (even on my reso)...point is, like you said, there are ways around not having dome chsnges. Thabks again Bob, I'll try that!

John,

Since your right up the street, I'm gonna have yo chexk out your schedule and come see you, so you csn sgow me some! I live in Amelia (clermont county) but it's just easier to say Cincinnati!

1 & 7 F#-G is totally cool and gives access to a lot of bluesy stuff compared to...
1 & 7 F#-G# which sounds more country to me.

With 1 & 7 F#-G , all sorts pentatonic ideas are easily found on strings 9 8 and 7

The same change will give access to the b3rd and the 3rd (strings 7 and 6) at the same fret which is really useful for some types of phrasing.

Also there is a nice way to slide into a dominant7 something with the F#-G.
G to G7 starting at 3rd fret....
[tab]
F#--------------------
D#--------------------
G#--------------------
E----------------4L---
B--------3-----4RR~---
G#-----3--------------
F#---------3~4R~~~~---
E----3----------------
D---------------------
B---------------------
[/tab]

It is possible to have the root, b9, 9 as the top note on the 4th string by using raise/lower (4th string) w A pedal or the #9 if you use C pedal to raise both 5th and 4th string instead of using Lower/raise w A-pedal.

Experiment with the 1&7 F#-G, if you dont find anything useful, try extend the knee lever movement so it does F#-G# instead, if that suits your musical ideas better.

B.Erlandsen
ZumSteel S12extE9 7+7

Thanks I'll try that!

Dont overlook the E minor pentatonic notes found on open strings 10 thru 4 with B pedal and 1&7 F#-G.
Makes for all sorts fun with open strings and hammer on with the bar.

Can also be viewed as some sort of G6 with a 9th note on the 6th string there.

If you can use the E-F lever at same time you might get a nice G7 in there also.

B.Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7

I have a version of that change. I raise the 1st string F# to G since I don't have much use for the whole step raise in my playing, I prefer the 7th chords and some Mooney kind of licks (although Ralph didn't have chromatic strings, he lowered the high G# to G instead to get the same effect).
Now my 7th string goes from F# to G# which is practically the equivalent of the 6th string G# to F#, since the 1st string does only a half step raise it creates a feel stop more or less at G, it takes some practice to hit it right. In that way I have like two levers in one. Only after I figured it out, I discovered that Don Pawlak, whom I like a lot, has the very same lever.

I have been doing a kit of experimenting and this change is a lot more handy yhan I originally thought. Since I only have the half tone raise on string 1, I either use it for the 7th in pedals down....but have been working on sliding up a fret with it to get the woke tone raise (slanting as well) and it's coming along.

The 7 string raise is turning out to be used quite a lot in passing chords I am learning. I guess as I progress in my journey with this inatrumwnt, I will use it even more! Thanks for all the suggestions

I have the F#>G on my guitar. Besides the bluesy 7th sounds you can also use that raise to go between major and minor thirds on the top two strings, which is nice for really fluid sounding melody stuff...

I have the 1 (F# - G#) raise & 2 (Eb - E) raise with the 6 lower on RKL

I have the 7 string raise with the 2 & 9 Lower on the RKR
It works for me
Larry

My RKL lowers 2 & 9 while RKL raises 1 & 7 to G. RKR has a half stop on string 2, so it's a bit different than what you have Larry.

I just made a copedent change to my LDG. My RKR now pulls 1 & 7 a whole step to G# with a half-stop on G. It also pulls 2 up a half-step to E.

I'm thinking that in Open "E" position, your 7th string raise F# to G, yields an E minor chord.....albeit with limited voicing.

Don't play 3rd or 6th strings.

Grip would be strings 4, 5, and 7

or

strings 7, 8 and 10

The half step raise G lever on strings 1 and 7 makes it possible to do a single note chromatic run from strings 5A through 3B, and 10A to 6B. The run also incorporates all other standard 3x4 pedals and levers.

The G lever also opens up diatonic double-stop licks, chord fragments, and scale runs up and down the neck on strings 5-4-3-2-1, as well as the aforementioned pentatonic runs on the lower strings.

Besides a few of the things mentioned above, I like to do the following:

First; play strings 6,7 and 9 open (with pedal B down). Doing this provides a D, or 4 chord (with the 9th string as the root). Then, raise the 7th string to G and you'll have a nice Sus4th chord!

I have my PP guitars set up to raise 7th string to G while also lowering my 5th string to Bb with my KLV. With the raise dominant changer you can't lower the 5th string (if it's being raised by the A pedal). This means you can raise the 7th string without the 5th string getting in the way by being lowered.