The Steel Guitar Forum

Sad that during my NAMM visit Thursday morning, there was only one true Pedal Steel on display (and I assume for sale; Jackson). I just find it a sad indicator of where the instrument is today. Who is big enough to get music stores interested in a product they can sell? MSA, GFI, Mullen, Show Pro? Who is out there? Who's making something that someone can actually see in a music store?

People make Banjo jokes all the time (I play banjo, so I'm allowed to make them too...), but there were hundreds of Banjos and maybe a dozen manufacturers. One for Pedal Steel.

Open to hear comments...

David Spires

That might indicate an upward trend. I go to the Anaheim show every year and I don't think I've seen a psg for about 10 years when there used to be a Carter sharing space with another exhibitor.

Let's say a music store gets a PSG in.

How many of the highly trained skilled professional employees even know what to call it? I know of several guitar players who have been playing for more than a few years. In spite of all of the times that I have corrected them, they still call it a SLIDE guitar. And these are musicians mind you, NOT the general public.

For that matter, how many actual gigging musicians do you know, COUNTRY musicians included, who know what a PSG is?

Now that you get one in the store:
1) Who is going to know how to set it up?
2) Who is going to know how to tune it?
3) Are they going to have the correct picks and bar and volume pedal to demonstrate the thing?
4) I don't think I even need to ask if anybody in the store will know how to play it, to demonstrate how that slide guitar thingy works.
5) After they buy it, who is going to give them lessons?

Your typical music store probably will sell 50-100 beginner guitars for every custom shop or higher end guitar they sell. That ratio increases substantially for a really expensive item like a slide guitar, er I mean, PSG.

I'd like to be able to walk into a music store every now and then and see a PSG also, but it's a fact of life that this is a "special" instrument and it just ain't gonna happen.

And you wonder why there aren't more PSG displays at NAMM? That isn't the fault of NAMM. Perhaps some of the resident manufacturers will chime in here. My guess is that it's not worth their time and/or money for the amount of business that they'd receive.

Pedal steels are custom instruments made for a very small market. It's not worth a music stores time or money to sell them.

Did Carter used to display the Carter Starter at NAMM? Was it sold in music stores, or only online and catalog sales?

Very good explanation, ajm.

A good friend of mine, Honest Ron's Guitars here in Oklahoma City has two pedal steels in his store. One is an old MSA D-10, set up and on display, the other one is an MCI D-10 in the case. They've sat in his store for months with no takers, and while I was in the store on several occasions, I've heard a lot of people ask, "what is this thing called?" Kids buying Squire Strats, and cheap amps just aren't going to invest in an instrument costing $1000's. While visiting an old guitar playing buddy in Colorado Springs a couple of weeks ago, he told me about his Mullen guitar he had sold. He said, "I just don't have time to get good playing pedal steel". He is a guitar player, builder, inventor, (sold his compensated guitar nut to McPherson Guitars) and a fantastic musician. He plays great Dobro, but the Pedal Steel is way more complicated than he imagined, so he gave up. If the young'uns don't take it up, it may morph into another instrument all together.

Most of the time guitar players call it a "steel pedal".

It is a shame that you can't see a PSG in a music store. In the mid-seventies, there were a few music stores in the bay area that were dealers for different brands. In San Francisco there was an MSA dealer, in either Santa Clara or Sunnyvale there was a store that sold Emmons guitars, in Santa Cruz was a dealer for Sho-Bud (Ernie Hagar worked there for a time). I went to all these places when I was changing from a single neck ZB to a double neck. A friend of mine had an electronics store, and he and I became a ZB dealer. We sold two, and I would meet someone in the store if they wanted to see one.

I did see a Carter Starter in Guitar Showcase in San Jose when they came out. Someone tried to tune it like a six string. It was real messed up. I knew adrummer that worked there, and he had me set it up for them. Of course they didn't sell steel guitar bars or string sets.

Along with all the other reasons, there is the "dealer cost" to list price. Many items are 50% of list, some are even 50 plus off of list and some are less than 50%. A builder can sell direct and pocket full profit, If they sell to a music store (or distributor) they have to knock X amount off of the list price profits.

I've seen a couple of Carter Starters in the Sam Ash in Tampa, Fl. Last time I was in there, there was a used Dekley D-10. I've also seen a new Carter Starter at the Tampa Guitar Center.

But for the most part Pedal Steel Guitars are mostly (there are a couple exceptions) factory/builder direct to end consumer.

We are lucky, in my area of Florida, to have a former Sho-Bud/Gretsch salesman and very good Pedal Steel player that owns a music store. His store manager also plays steel. He usually has a Pedal steel or two on display (most are consignments). He is a Peavey dealer, stocks Goodrich volume pedals, bars, strings for Pedal steel. (Bondz Music in Wildwood, Florida).

We have one store close that carries GFI's and a few used makes. The owners son plays steel so he's pretty knowledgeable.

I have noticed at some of my gigs when I play some rock it always generates some interest in the younger crowd but the price of the equipment is whats keeping them out.

I've seen more PSGs in pawn shops than music stores. In fact, I bought my first, a Maverick, at a pawn shop.

I recall that Carter was marketing the 'Carter Starter' as available in a package complete with volume pedal and bar. The local Guitar Center had one in stock for a while and before it finally sold; the bar became mysteriously misplaced (or more likely stolen), the volume pedal was sold separately by a clueless sales person, and two of the knee levers had been pushed past their stops and broken (along with the corresponding strings). The manager happened to be a friend and asked me to repair the damage. I did manage to return it to full playability, string and tune it, and touch up the cosmetic issues with the wood pedal rack (it did sell eventually for a greatly reduced price).

If memory serves me correctly, Carter built the "Magnum" line of guitars for this very purpose - to sell to music stores, and things were progressing well I understand before John's untimely passing.

I've never been to a NAMM show, but I've produced, managed, or presented at dozens of construction industry tradeshow exhibits, live events on the show floor, and educational conference sessions. It is crazy-expensive for any company to exhibit at a national show. Our national construction tradeshows are about the same cost to exhibit as summer/winter NAMM. If anyone is interested PM me and I'll outline what you can expect to spend... but even the smallest space (typically a 10x10 booth) can be a mid-five-figure commitment.

Having success at a national tradeshow requires a ton of pre-planning and leaving nothing to chance. More stuff I won't bore anyone with except to say I doubt most small PSG builders are even thinking along those lines. They're building guitars in their shop with a small crew - they don't have a sales/marketing arm to deal with all the pre-tradeshow... during tradeshow... and post-tradeshow stuff. You have to be big enough to have a sales/marketing director - hopefully experienced with doing shows.

Finally - you have to be big enough to deal with the orders generated. Selling more than you can produce - or promising "The shiny new model we demonstrated will be available by Labor Day" when it winds up being next Memorial Day because you didn't have your ducks in a row - and your credibility will be shot and will be difficult to repair.

More often than not - small companies get stung badly and their first big tradeshow is their last. They assume because they're spending $25,000 for a 10x10 spot and all that goes with it - that the tradeshow organizers' marketing and PR will be all they need to assure good traffic and qualified buyers at their booth. Huge mistake - it *WON'T* be. I tell my clients to approach the construction show as if the show producer is doing *absolutely nothing* beyond providing the space- they have to be responsible for every other aspect of the show to have any shot at success. Plus - until they've exhibited for several years at a big show it's a good bet they'll be stuck with a horrible location on the floor - and sometimes smaller vendors never have good floor position no matter how many years they've been there. Just like real estate - location is everything. Fender is going to get the big booth in line with the entrance and the 10 yr vets get benefit of 'water over the gills'. Two aisles over can be a disaster and the difference between >1000 qualified leads and <100. That's why the exhibitor has to take responsibility and pre-promote the heck out of their appearance.

Anyhoo... I'd have to think that a big national show would be a pretty bad fit for the vast majority of PSG builders out there. The same dollars spent at NAMM could fund a year's worth of local clinics all over the country (for example).
JLS

Adding to Paddy's mention of the Magnum steel, maybe some interest would be generated among the young crowd if a store had one of Doug Earnst's Stage One steels and a person working at the shop who could play pedal steel and teach. Students do pay for regular 6 string lessons so the shop and instructor could also make some dough. Maybe a student might even buy one.. Until then, the students paying for lessons could come to the store and practice if nobody else was taking a lesson.

Having some different types of pedsl steel music playing in the background now and then, might spark interest among prospective pedsl steel students.

Stevet

Most all big chain and most local stores aim their attention towards rock players. The notion of hearing even one steel guitar song, or even steel heavy songs, is pretty far fetched.

There was a store in the bay area that was geared somewhat toward the steel guitar player. He had several used guitars, and maybe a new one or two on his floor. When we had a steel guitar club, he would let us hold seminars and concerts in hi store. I hung out at his store a good bit, and I think I saw another steeler once,and never someone being curious about the PSG.

I certainly don't have the answer. Maybe the answer is having a guitar made in China. I can't believe I'm saying that. But if they could produce a decent starter guitar (think Carter Starter type, but built better) for around $600, I think stores MIGHT be interested in having one on their floor. I'm not even sure they could produce one in that price range.

Richard Sinkler wrote: Maybe the answer is having a guitar made in China... for around $600 ..

Chinese manufacturers seem to have no respect whatsoever for USA intellectual property and will rip off any good Made-in-USA design and mass-produce it. The only really unique piece(s) of a PSG are the changer/fingers and arguably the end plates with threaded openings for legs - everything else - rods, bell cranks, tuners, pedals, springs, pickup, etc. could be jammed out of really low-quality materials and made to work - so no doubt in volume they could produce a working E9 S10 for less than $200 and I'm betting less than $100 wholesale if the demand for it existed.

Problem is - no demand. It would take a slew of Ed Sheeran -type teen idols playing pedal steel and I don't see that happening any more than I see mass interest in Accordions or Bassoons.

A friend of mine runs a home-town music store a few hours from here - he's selling tons of <$50 Ukes, <$200 starter guitar kits/practice amps, etc. Inexpensive stuff to buy but (I'm told) good profit margins - almost every bit of it (except guitar strings) made in China or Indonesia. Problem is- good margins or not it takes a TON of $50 uke sales to pay the rent/help/utilities/etc. I honestly don't know how they keep the doors open, but they've been there for decades and have figured out a way to keep going, even with a Guitar Center within 15-20 minutes. I'm guessing their lesson program and band instrument rentals (also now overtaken by cheaply made Chinese instruments FWIW) makes up for the lack of high-end sales.

JLS
PS - Back to the band instruments. I'm shocked at how poorly made some of the Chinese band instruments are - even from well-known name brands. Saxes where the keys bend under minimal pressure... Trombones that require the Incredible Hulk to move the slide... wind instruments that will not play in tune no matter what... Horrible stuff for kids to try to learn on.

Richard Sinkler wrote: "Most all big chain and most local stores aim their attention towards rock players. The notion of hearing even one steel guitar song, or even steel heavy songs, is pretty far fetched."

Every GC and Sam Ash I've ever been in plays classic rock over the sound system. Don't get me wrong, classic rock is probably my primary love.

But...........

It would be interesting to walk into one, and have them change their programming for a day. Country, twangy Tele's, PSG, Buck, Merle, etc etc.

Then sit back and watch the clientele. Specifically, the Gen X-Y-Z-millenial types that come in and practice their latest grunge and death metal licks, with the country stuff in the background.

Not that one form of the music is better or worse than another. But rather from the perspective of an environment/habitat point of view.

And then, you could film it for an episode of "What would you do?" or "20-20".

HAW!!! (aka LOL)

Joe Stoddard's comparison of the NAMM shows to construction trade shows is spot on. Here's my perspective from a guitar show standpoint, of which I do maybe 5-10 or so a year.

Really, when it comes down to it, there just isn't enough demand for pedal steel or steel guitars to warrant bringing them. Sometimes I'll load up, haul, and setup a pedal steel at a show but I've only sold two of them over a span of 20 years in that type of venue. Sadly, they end up occupying lots of costly table or floor space. I wish I could say otherwise but the reality is just that. And we're talking Emmons steels.

There's always a fair amount of curiosity about them. Sometimes I'll sit down and play a little and actually draw a fair amount of onlookers, although certainly not due to any great ability on my part. It's more that people are, again, curious and perhaps even fascinated by the instrument. I'm convinced that's because they've never seen one being played up close. Regardless, it's a rarity if any questions get to the point of negotiating price let alone purchasing the steel.

I know the overhead involved in being a vendor at a show and sometimes it's a lot what with travel, time, booth space, hotel, meals, etc. Small 6-string guitar manufacturers often set up at some of the big shows and I often only see them once. They're not there the next year although there are always one or two exceptions. I can't imagine seeing a pedal steel manufacturer doing it except at a dedicated steel guitar show. Simply put, there's no money in it for them.

I have been in the PSG community only about 8 years but I remember when I bought all the issues of the old pedal steel guitar magazine how surprised I was that so much of the editorial slant was about the chip on the shoulder that exists because PSG is not played or appreciated by everyone.
Harp guitars, mandolin bands,tenor guitars, etc., were once all the rage. They have to a large degree, died out. Now, six string guitar sales are way down.
We can't control societal evolution, all we can do is keep picking, and supporting other folks who make great, new, traditional country music like Rhonda Vincent's new American Grandstand album.
If the PSG dies out, we won't know it cause we'll all be gone as well. My kids will just have to figure out what to do with these dang things on their own.

I will "third" what Joe Stoddard said about the expense side of national trade shows. And typically, the qualified leads one secures from the effort are few.

The problem is compounded by the general level of interest in anything that takes time and effort to do well.

Ask a few music teachers about the level of "desire to learn" and "work ethic" of the average student. It is way different than what the average student brought to the party 2 generations ago.

It seems that if a kid can't post it to Farcebook and get a whole bunch of "likes," then they are not interested.

Yes, the PSG is not easy. But the beauty of the music that resounds from the instrument in able hands is worth the work, at least to me.

I agree with Dan in his comments about the work ethic of many.

Sure, up front, there are exceptions whom we all know. But the work ethic, the desire and dedication to dig in, woodshed, learn and practice just isn't there among the generation of those who think being without a cellphone is unthinkable. It's amazing to see the addiction. And it's not going to get better.

A negative perspective? No, just reality and fact. I wish it were otherwise.

Dan Kelly wrote:Ask a few music teachers about the level of "desire to learn" and "work ethic" of the average student. It is way different than what the average student brought to the party 2 generations ago.

It took about 5 years for this ex-guitar teacher to get pretty disgusted with it. After spending some time blaming myself for not providing inspiration along with education, I decided nope it's not me that has a problem here.

PSG as a generation x-y-z starter instrument? It would take an exceptionally motivated student and an exceptionally gifted teacher to pull that off, not to mention a set of parents willing to take on a significant financial investment.

I know nothing about how these trade shows work, but maybe small PSG builders could piggy-back on to a larger manufacturer's booth at NAMM. Like Peavey or Fender, who make amps that are still popular with steel players.

The OP is in reference to the Nashville NAMM, after all. You would think there might be at least a couple steel guitars there.