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Topic: 4th pedal |
Russell Adkins
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 8 Jul 2017 11:17 am |
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| Im building a 3 ped and 4 knee guitar now i want to add a 4th pedal , where could it go on what string or strings would be a good choice? The guitar will be a pull release something simple , any ideas? Rocky |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Wayne Quinn
From:
Cape Breton.NovaScotia
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Posted 8 Jul 2017 5:10 pm
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What about both B.s to A , just a thought. i have it although i don,t use it all that much.
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D10 Carter, SD10 Mullen .Nashville 400,. peavey 112 Boss DD3., RV5, |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 9 Jul 2017 8:01 am
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I put the modern 1st and 2nd string raise (to g# and E) on a zero pedal instead of a knee so I can split it with the whole tone drop of 2.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 9 Jul 2017 8:38 am
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| The only change I would consider adding to my Stage One (3x4 pull-release) is string 5 B to Bb, leaving low B as is. That would probably have to be done with LKV though, rather than trying to add a pedal as you are able to do on your home-build. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 9 Jul 2017 10:29 am
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IMHO, the 5th string lower to Bb is the most mysterious and misunderstood of all changes. It is also far more useful than many people realize. But I believe it absolutely belongs on a regular knee lever, not on either a vertical or a 4th pedal.
Verticals are hard to use, so putting the change there discourages people from exploring its many uses.
A lot of folks like to use their 4th knee lever to lower string 6 to F#. I tried this, and found that it made some things easier, but did not yield a single lick or chord that I could not make by using a different pedal or knee lever and moving the bar. (I should note that people for whom I have a lot of respect disagree with me about this.)
Again, IMHO, the best change to put on a vertical is raising the 1st and 7th strings from F# to G natural. This change is almost always used in conjunction with one or both of the pedals. Holding down a pedal gives you leverage against the vertical and makes it much easier to use.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Steve Leal
From:
Orange CA, USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2017 1:01 pm
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Hi Mike, seems like you and I are quite on the same page regarding setup. I have changed my setup multiple times and finally found one that just feels right for what I do on a single neck guitar trying to get as much out of it as possible, but keeping things simple and erganomically comfortable.
I lower my Bs on a knee lever as I get a quicker, smoother transition in combination with my A pedal, or A pedal with E raise to get a minor one fret up from AB position smoothly rather than having to shift from Ab to BC in a phrase. I use this change ALL of the time!
On my up lever, I raise 7th string F# to G, 2nd string D# to E, 1st string F# to G#. I have it set so that I feel the half stop from the 7th string to stop and get my G on string 1.
On my zero pedal, I lower String 3 G# to G to get my Ralph Mooney licks, and lower string 6 G# to F# and use that mostly for resolves and low swoop sound occationally. I also have the option to tune the string 6 stop to drop to G if called for in a song. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 13 Jul 2017 2:42 pm
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I think so many people put the 5th string lower in a vertical is that Jeff Newman ha it there.
But Jeff used a custom made extra long vertical that covered almost the entire length of the cabinet. The reason is that he played a U-12, and the change is both and E9 and B6 change, and he wanted to be able to use it on both sides of the tuning.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Steve Leal
From:
Orange CA, USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2017 5:01 pm
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I would love to drop the B's on the up lever, and have attempted it many times, but I swear I just can't make it flow there. I have it on an opposite leg than my E raises, and it just works so well there.
I drop my Es on the same leg that lowers my B's and miss out on a couple cool things because of it
(1. diminished with Es lowered, Bs lowered, AB pressed)
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(2. Seventh with Es lowered, Bs lowered and A pressed....same chording and grip as AB with G raises but one fret up).
If you raise Es and lower Es with same leg, and lowered B's on other leg, you could get away without raising 1 and 7 to Gs on the up lever, and maybe lower 3 and 6 to Gs like Tom Brumley does ... or lower 6 to F# like Tommy White. And still have your zero pedal free for something fun .... like Raising 6 to A# (like Ernest Bovine) or raise 7 to G# like Brumley. Ughhh, too many fun possibilities! |
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Greg Milton
From:
Benalla, Australia
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Posted 14 Jul 2017 2:12 am Slight digression...
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
IMHO, the 5th string lower to Bb is the most mysterious and misunderstood of all changes. It is also far more useful than many people realize. But I believe it absolutely belongs on a regular knee lever, not on either a vertical or a 4th pedal.
Verticals are hard to use, so putting the change there discourages people from exploring its many uses. |
I agree Mike - it is a great change and useful for a whole lot of things. But I need it on the vertical... because it's the only way I can play it with all other knee levers and pedals combinations.
With a bit of muscle memory the vertical isn't so hard, and I frequently use it pivoting off the floor and engaging a knee lever either side of it - although my Williams allows this quite easily. (Do other guitars allow this?)
I use it with the E raise and lowers (for a scale tone), 6th string drop G#-F# (to go from a 9th to a 7th chord), E-F# raise (for same), E-F# raise and A pedal (for an augmented/13th chord), A pedal (for an augmented), A and B pedals (for the minor), A and B and E lower (for the diminished or a 7th chord), etc. etc.
Of course, a wrist lever would solve this problem!
Mike: Does your wrist lever have a tuneable split? |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 14 Jul 2017 2:41 am Re: Slight digression...
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| Greg Milton wrote: |
Mike: Does your wrist lever have a tuneable split? |
Yes. I consider a split on the 5th string lower to be very important. I have splits on some other strings, but that's the one I use most often.
Here are some wrist lever pictures
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Greg Milton
From:
Benalla, Australia
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Posted 14 Jul 2017 3:36 am
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One more question! How did you get them on 3 of your steels? Did you do them yourself? Did someone else do them for you? Did the same person do all three?
Okay, four more questions... |
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Greg Milton
From:
Benalla, Australia
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Posted 14 Jul 2017 3:40 am
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| Sorry Rocky - another slight digression! |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 14 Jul 2017 7:37 am
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| Greg Milton wrote: |
One more question! How did you get them on 3 of your steels? Did you do them yourself? Did someone else do them for you? Did the same person do all three?
Okay, four more questions... |
I got 4 0f them, on 4 different steels.
Tom Bradshaw designed and made the 2 on the older guitars. When I ordered the purple Millie, I shipped the white one to Dallas so Johnny Cox could study Tom's design.
Jim Palenscar made the one on the 2nd Millie, (by coincidence also white, and not pictured.) When I got it, I took both guitars to and told him to duplicate the purple one's copedant on the new white one.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2017 8:17 am
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I would mostly want the string 5 to Bb change for sliding down 2 frets on 5-4-3 and go into a 9th. It is also a voicing for m6 and m7b5, which would also be nice in that position. I'm sure I would find other uses for it.
For now, I just either do a slant with no pedals or drop down 3 frets and raise 4 and 3. Don't really need the change, but it would be convenient. |
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Steve Leal
From:
Orange CA, USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2017 8:30 am
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| Mike, what change is setup on your wrist lever? That is awesome! |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 14 Jul 2017 9:09 am
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5th string lower, B to Bb.
There's a guy in Europe who also has a wrist lever, but he lowers his 6th string from G# to F#.
Zane King, what change do you have on yours?
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Steve Leal
From:
Orange CA, USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2017 12:42 pm
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Very nice! That's what I would do with one. Hmm, might have to talk to Jim P about one  |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Steve Leal
From:
Orange CA, USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2017 3:31 pm
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| Mike, I would love to attend but will be in Parker AZ for some fun in the Sun. Btw, I play left handed steel So would have to test the booger out from the front side LOL |
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